(RAF) Seletar. End of an era.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mark Twain said "Buy land. They've stopped making it". Singapore proved him wrong. The yellow line below is still marked as 'Changi Coast Road'.
Last edited by forget; 9th May 2007 at 15:04.
Silly Old Git
Forget did know a Gary Brown a kiwi?
I was after a job on the G1 in '74-5 but was offered a place on a Volpar in Borneo I think it was.
There were a few maniac ex Vietnam hot shots hanging out around Seletar at the time looking for excitement
Declined and went on to some other dead end job instead
I was after a job on the G1 in '74-5 but was offered a place on a Volpar in Borneo I think it was.
There were a few maniac ex Vietnam hot shots hanging out around Seletar at the time looking for excitement
Declined and went on to some other dead end job instead
Last edited by tinpis; 10th May 2007 at 01:06.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tinpis, Gary Brown is Aussie; was on the GI and Volpar early/mid seventies.
I’m sure I knew them all – colourful bunch. My neighbour for a time, Frank H, was ex Air America, Cambodia. He just loved his DC-3s. He eventually left for the US around 77 and some time later I received a letter from him - postmarked McAllen on the Tex Mex border. I read the first sentence and my jaw dropped. Frank told me he was a Sony TV distributor!
This can't be right I thought – but I read on. Flying out of McAllen he was distributing Sony TVs all over northern Mexico, at night, in a DC-3.
PS. What a coincidence - this today on the same Air America guys.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...la-home-nation
PPS. I did a search on Air America and there's the same Gary Brown! Pall bearer last year in the US. See Sharon Coalson.
http://www.air-america.org/News/In_Memoriam.shtml
tinpis- You may recognise some names here!
…… maniac ex Vietnam hot shots hanging out around Seletar at the time looking for excitement.
This can't be right I thought – but I read on. Flying out of McAllen he was distributing Sony TVs all over northern Mexico, at night, in a DC-3.
PS. What a coincidence - this today on the same Air America guys.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...la-home-nation
PPS. I did a search on Air America and there's the same Gary Brown! Pall bearer last year in the US. See Sharon Coalson.
http://www.air-america.org/News/In_Memoriam.shtml
tinpis- You may recognise some names here!
Last edited by forget; 10th May 2007 at 12:21.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Singapore has a soul after all!
Straits Times. June 27, 2007
Seletar gets ready for makeover as aerospace hub.
Multimillion-dollar plan unveiled; tranquil nature of area to be retained
By Karamjit Kaur, Aviation Correspondent
THE blueprint for the multi-million dollar makeover of the sleepy surroundings of Seletar Airport into a major aerospace hub was unveiled yesterday.
The new Seletar Aerospace Park will have a bigger airport and a longer runway, to handle larger aircraft.
New roads, better infrastructure and more than 100 football fields of space will also be available to the cluster of companies that design and manufacture aircraft components and small jets, as well as run training schools.
The park will be developed at a cost of more than $60 million. When completed by 2018, it will create 10,000 jobs and help double the output of Singapore's fast-growing aerospace sector, from last year's record $6.3 billion.
The need for the park was clear, said Mr Leong Hong Yew, JTC Corporation's deputy director for industrial development (East).
Aerospace activities are now carried out in Loyang and Changi North, but space is fast running out there, he explained.
In finalising the master-plan for Seletar, however, his team retained, as much as possible, the idyllic, tranquil nature of the area with its more than 300 black-and-white colonial bungalows, old trees and open fields.
He said: 'This is not going to be another run-of-the-mill industrial park.'
Of the 378 black-and-white bungalows in the area, 204 will be retained. Some will be converted into aerospace training schools and food and beverage outlets, while 131 units will be set aside for residential use.
He said: 'The houses will be retained and conserved so the ambience of the environment is maintained.' For the same reason, more than 30 distinctive trees will not be cut down, he said.
The plans have been received well by industry, with one-fifth of the 120ha set aside for commercial use already booked. The first few tenants are expected to move in to their new premises in October, said Mr Leong. Among the front runners are Singapore Technologies Aerospace and Jet Aviation, both with plans to expand their current facilities at Seletar.
For Jet Aviation, the location and timing made sense. Vice-president and general manager for Asia, Mr Michael Sattler, said: 'Singapore is a very good location and offers many advantages. The upcoming integrated resorts are also expected to attract more corporate and business jets here.'
Residents in the area were also briefed on the plans last night.
For some families there was good news, as they were told their homes were not affected and they will have the option to extend their current leases which expire at the end of next year, for a further two years. After that, it will be up to the Singapore Land Authority which owns the land, to decide on future plans for the area. The rest will have to move out when their leases expire next year.
There was some excitement at Seletar Base Golf Course where the briefing was held, when a few residents including children, turned up with signs protesting against the plans. But it ended without incident.
Sales manager Jacqueline Tan, 38, who will have to move out of Seletar after living there for three years, will miss the greenery and close neighbours.
She said: 'This place is unique... You can't find a place like this in Singapore. It's also a very close-knit community here. Everyone knows everyone.'
It was a response Mr Leong had anticipated.
'We tried our best to balance the needs of industry and community, and at the same time attempted to integrate the surroundings of the area into the plan... But there will be some who will not be happy,' he said
Straits Times. June 27, 2007
Seletar gets ready for makeover as aerospace hub.
Multimillion-dollar plan unveiled; tranquil nature of area to be retained
By Karamjit Kaur, Aviation Correspondent
THE blueprint for the multi-million dollar makeover of the sleepy surroundings of Seletar Airport into a major aerospace hub was unveiled yesterday.
The new Seletar Aerospace Park will have a bigger airport and a longer runway, to handle larger aircraft.
New roads, better infrastructure and more than 100 football fields of space will also be available to the cluster of companies that design and manufacture aircraft components and small jets, as well as run training schools.
The park will be developed at a cost of more than $60 million. When completed by 2018, it will create 10,000 jobs and help double the output of Singapore's fast-growing aerospace sector, from last year's record $6.3 billion.
The need for the park was clear, said Mr Leong Hong Yew, JTC Corporation's deputy director for industrial development (East).
Aerospace activities are now carried out in Loyang and Changi North, but space is fast running out there, he explained.
In finalising the master-plan for Seletar, however, his team retained, as much as possible, the idyllic, tranquil nature of the area with its more than 300 black-and-white colonial bungalows, old trees and open fields.
He said: 'This is not going to be another run-of-the-mill industrial park.'
Of the 378 black-and-white bungalows in the area, 204 will be retained. Some will be converted into aerospace training schools and food and beverage outlets, while 131 units will be set aside for residential use.
He said: 'The houses will be retained and conserved so the ambience of the environment is maintained.' For the same reason, more than 30 distinctive trees will not be cut down, he said.
The plans have been received well by industry, with one-fifth of the 120ha set aside for commercial use already booked. The first few tenants are expected to move in to their new premises in October, said Mr Leong. Among the front runners are Singapore Technologies Aerospace and Jet Aviation, both with plans to expand their current facilities at Seletar.
For Jet Aviation, the location and timing made sense. Vice-president and general manager for Asia, Mr Michael Sattler, said: 'Singapore is a very good location and offers many advantages. The upcoming integrated resorts are also expected to attract more corporate and business jets here.'
Residents in the area were also briefed on the plans last night.
For some families there was good news, as they were told their homes were not affected and they will have the option to extend their current leases which expire at the end of next year, for a further two years. After that, it will be up to the Singapore Land Authority which owns the land, to decide on future plans for the area. The rest will have to move out when their leases expire next year.
There was some excitement at Seletar Base Golf Course where the briefing was held, when a few residents including children, turned up with signs protesting against the plans. But it ended without incident.
Sales manager Jacqueline Tan, 38, who will have to move out of Seletar after living there for three years, will miss the greenery and close neighbours.
She said: 'This place is unique... You can't find a place like this in Singapore. It's also a very close-knit community here. Everyone knows everyone.'
It was a response Mr Leong had anticipated.
'We tried our best to balance the needs of industry and community, and at the same time attempted to integrate the surroundings of the area into the plan... But there will be some who will not be happy,' he said
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The yellow line below is still marked as 'Changi Coast Road'.
...and don't mention "Tee-Pee's" - the infamous China Sea Beach Club situated on the Telok Paku Road roughly where the oil landing is now, above the top end of the yellow line. Happy Days indeed.
Some of the Air America mechanics worked with me in Borneo in the eighties. I Tan and Chrng Ruu Jou (No, there's nothing wrong with the spelling!) had a tale or two to tell. Ruu Jou was known to us and the Air Americans as "Roger", for obvious reasons. I remember him jabbering "Sno Goy Yin!" - in what I took to be Chinese - when doing a particularly difficult bit of fitting. Eventually I worked out that this meant "It doesn't fit" - he was actually saying "Its not going in!"
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
prospector: The Royal Singapore Yacht Club was the "Posh" club and the British Army shared their facilities. Common RAF people from the Changi and Seletar yacht clubs weren't too welcome there. I do have a contact who may be able to assist in identifying the cup though and I'll PM you later once I've been in touch with them.
As an example, I have the Far East Air Force Sub-Machine Gun Champions Cup in my possession. I was the last holder of the cup and all the silver plated prizes were kept by the final holders in 1971 - the more valuable solid silver major trophies being sent to UK, to be retained by the RAF Small Arms Association.
I loved your phrase,"sunset of a military career ". I shall have it set to music,and donning my topee, sipping my Gin Sling, listen to it as the sun sets.
Silly Old Git
Straining the potatoes in (old) Bugis street and noticing an old chinee gent behind a curtain filling half consumed Tigers with others that had been abandoned and re-capping them for sale 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: deco stop
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In Seletar two weeks ago
I was never in the services, but the sight of the "old" airport facilities, made me think just how much debt we all owe the guys who were based there.
I do hope that the GA facilities continue, as Changi is not GA friendly.
Thanks for the thread, guys..
windy
I do hope that the GA facilities continue, as Changi is not GA friendly.
Thanks for the thread, guys..
windy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bugis Street 1966 – the closest I’ve ever come to a very messy death. A group of us were ‘dining’ there one night, on detachment to Tengah with Vulcans. The layout of the food stalls was a T junction. I’d noticed the size of the rats which popped up for a quick recce from the underground drains. As the night wore on an idea began to form. After a recce of my own I decided, yes, it might work. There were four main open entries to the drains; three at the ends of the T, and one in middle of the ‘vertical’, where most of the activity was.
I slipped off and came back with three packs of ‘Double Voice’ Chinese crackers. These were like an explosive Tampax. Pull the string and a cracker was fired out, which then exploded in flight. I selected three ‘assistants’ from our group and briefed them.
They each took a pack of crackers and moved towards a drain opening apiece, but leaving the one in the middle of the action.
At my signal they started to loose off cracker after cracker into their chosen drain.
I’d reckoned on some sort of result - but nowhere near what we were now witnessing. Seems that every king–size rat in Singapore lived under Bugis Street! And they were now all shooting vertically out of the drain in the middle, ten feet away, much like a big grey hairy fountain.
Pandemonium! ‘Women’, and even some real women, jumping on tables and screaming. Chinese hawkers doing Kung Foo with broom handles; me wondering how I could look innocent. Meanwhile, my ‘assistants’ had quietly disappeared into the night.
Then I saw him – a big Chinese hawker with a meat cleaver pointing me out to his mates. I started to ‘leave’ - and after me they came. They had no hope of producing my level of adrenalin and I left ‘em for dead. I think I must have been half way up Bukit Timah Road when I stopped running.
Luckily, we flew out of Singapore the next day. Happy days, you bet!
I slipped off and came back with three packs of ‘Double Voice’ Chinese crackers. These were like an explosive Tampax. Pull the string and a cracker was fired out, which then exploded in flight. I selected three ‘assistants’ from our group and briefed them.
They each took a pack of crackers and moved towards a drain opening apiece, but leaving the one in the middle of the action.
At my signal they started to loose off cracker after cracker into their chosen drain.
I’d reckoned on some sort of result - but nowhere near what we were now witnessing. Seems that every king–size rat in Singapore lived under Bugis Street! And they were now all shooting vertically out of the drain in the middle, ten feet away, much like a big grey hairy fountain.
Pandemonium! ‘Women’, and even some real women, jumping on tables and screaming. Chinese hawkers doing Kung Foo with broom handles; me wondering how I could look innocent. Meanwhile, my ‘assistants’ had quietly disappeared into the night.
Then I saw him – a big Chinese hawker with a meat cleaver pointing me out to his mates. I started to ‘leave’ - and after me they came. They had no hope of producing my level of adrenalin and I left ‘em for dead. I think I must have been half way up Bukit Timah Road when I stopped running.
Luckily, we flew out of Singapore the next day. Happy days, you bet!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seletar Javs
l.garey has sent me an interesting clipping of the Seletar Javs. Anyone remember them? My kids grew up playing in the remains. In fact, on Google Earth there's a (very) slight chance that a large part of one may still be there. Surely not! I'll be there next week. Worth a look.
Here's the Goggle Earth co-ords. Go on. Tell me it's not part of a Javelin.
001 25 17.90 N 103 52 20.34E
Here's the Goggle Earth co-ords. Go on. Tell me it's not part of a Javelin.
001 25 17.90 N 103 52 20.34E
Last edited by forget; 22nd Aug 2007 at 14:39.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seletar Javelins
Thanks "forget" for adding the newspaper cutting I found about the fate of at least one Seletar Javelin.
You might be right: that triangular bit could be a wing. The last time I was at Seletar (18 July 1989) there still was the burned wreck of one Javelin, located just where you put your Google Earth marker. It was almost unrecognisable, but the fuselage was still there, as well as the stumps of wings.
There were also several other intersting survivors at Seletar at that time (July 1989), including CV240 N8329C (the wings were off and it was in poor shape), and CV340 HZ-AAY, still with Saudi markings on the rudder. Even more interesting was a Lodestar N5135, engineless but in reasonable shape. These 3 were lying just south of the Javelin, to the east of the runway.
At around this time too the HU16B Albatross PK-OAH, that had been in the "Airfast" hangar, was put out to graze in front of the fire station (ominous). I think, however, that it is the same one that is now at Changi, also close to the fire station.
Does anyone know what happened to the Lodestar or the CVs? Singapore has never been noted for its love of old aeroplanes. The Hunter, Meteor and Sea Vixen that used to be on Sentosa Island were disposed of, but were luckily snapped up by the Queensland Museum. However, the C47 that was there too was broken up on the spot. Does anyone know where it came from? All I could see when I examined it in 1987 was camouflage overall, but it bore what looked like "WB" and "886" on the fin, but I am not sure of this. Someone told me it had been involved in Vietnam in some way.
Any old Singaporeans out there?
You might be right: that triangular bit could be a wing. The last time I was at Seletar (18 July 1989) there still was the burned wreck of one Javelin, located just where you put your Google Earth marker. It was almost unrecognisable, but the fuselage was still there, as well as the stumps of wings.
There were also several other intersting survivors at Seletar at that time (July 1989), including CV240 N8329C (the wings were off and it was in poor shape), and CV340 HZ-AAY, still with Saudi markings on the rudder. Even more interesting was a Lodestar N5135, engineless but in reasonable shape. These 3 were lying just south of the Javelin, to the east of the runway.
At around this time too the HU16B Albatross PK-OAH, that had been in the "Airfast" hangar, was put out to graze in front of the fire station (ominous). I think, however, that it is the same one that is now at Changi, also close to the fire station.
Does anyone know what happened to the Lodestar or the CVs? Singapore has never been noted for its love of old aeroplanes. The Hunter, Meteor and Sea Vixen that used to be on Sentosa Island were disposed of, but were luckily snapped up by the Queensland Museum. However, the C47 that was there too was broken up on the spot. Does anyone know where it came from? All I could see when I examined it in 1987 was camouflage overall, but it bore what looked like "WB" and "886" on the fin, but I am not sure of this. Someone told me it had been involved in Vietnam in some way.
Any old Singaporeans out there?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: coeland
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes..I jus drove past " Birdcage walk' and it's an abandoned row of barracks now. but upgrading works are underway, the golf course would have togo, I heard..I'm doing a weekly weekend documentation of the lovely charming place before some " powers" come n ruin it. I agree the navaid need some upgrading, like GPS or ILS ,Rnwy strengthening n lengthing n re-sloped but surely the colonial houses and grassland can stay intact. It's a non -precision apch AD.03/21
Well, there are some GA and MRO there still. Besides WSSL , there is a lovely dam/ reservoir where pple would just park their rides n enjoy the scenery or a BBQ.I hope it stays. There is a great nostalgic price to pay for progress..n this progress is NOT to turn WSSL into a MRO but to cater to VIP flights in view of the IR(Integrated Resorts aka Casinos ) and Formula One traffic. YES!! Singapore would host 2008 F1, the first Nite time Race of its kind.
Street circuit a la Monaco style.!!
For those of u old timers , Paya Lebar is now a MRO & a Military Airbase.
Well, there are some GA and MRO there still. Besides WSSL , there is a lovely dam/ reservoir where pple would just park their rides n enjoy the scenery or a BBQ.I hope it stays. There is a great nostalgic price to pay for progress..n this progress is NOT to turn WSSL into a MRO but to cater to VIP flights in view of the IR(Integrated Resorts aka Casinos ) and Formula One traffic. YES!! Singapore would host 2008 F1, the first Nite time Race of its kind.
Street circuit a la Monaco style.!!For those of u old timers , Paya Lebar is now a MRO & a Military Airbase.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: coeland
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airfast, Hawker Pacific, Jet Aviation, Universal still there.
THe old HUnter, Meteor are now housed in the Paya Lebar Air Force museum. N you are right, singaporeans has no love of anything old, not to mention airplanes, aged parents,dogs, etc...etc..haha
THe old HUnter, Meteor are now housed in the Paya Lebar Air Force museum. N you are right, singaporeans has no love of anything old, not to mention airplanes, aged parents,dogs, etc...etc..haha
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Age: 78
Posts: 262
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forget asks if anyone remembers the Javs. Most certainly.
I was in transit through Tengah at the time that 60 Sqn disbanded and watched the actual ceremony during the evening of 30 April 1968. A moving experience.
Below is a photo that I took the following morning with the aircraft that had taken part in the final fly-past lined up on 60's dispersal. A short while after the photo was taken, they were flown out to Seletar for disposal.
Sorry about the poor quality but it was scanned from a very small image.
I was in transit through Tengah at the time that 60 Sqn disbanded and watched the actual ceremony during the evening of 30 April 1968. A moving experience.
Below is a photo that I took the following morning with the aircraft that had taken part in the final fly-past lined up on 60's dispersal. A short while after the photo was taken, they were flown out to Seletar for disposal.
Sorry about the poor quality but it was scanned from a very small image.
Last edited by lauriebe; 30th Aug 2007 at 07:12.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I popped into Seletar last week, first time in twenty years, and took a couple of shots of some living history, below. Three quarter inch armour plate doors to an old RAF storage shed (still in use) after a going over with machine guns. I don’t know if the bad guys were inside or outside at the time.
Grandpa Aerotart
Spent two years based at Seletar, 2000/2002, as a CP for a Corporate jet operation. While I didn't live on the base but in a condo at Yio Chu Kang it was simply a joyous place to work at...riding to work on my motor bike and wending through the old Black and Whites and between the golf course fairways to our our office in the Hawker Pacific hangar was wonderfull...The Hawker Pac hangar was a restored WW2 original and interestingly the bottom 2m or so of the hangar doors were the original WW2 armour plate complete with numerous gouges from strafing machine guns and several larger holes clean through the thick plating, presumably from cannon shells.
Our Maintenance Controller lived on the base and spent many enjoyable hours at his home and at the golf course clubhouse (the non up market one) eating the great food there..not to mention the ice cold beer.
The only thing which made me glad to live off base was the huge numbers of resident Black Cobras (spitting variety native to the Island)...I have never seen a place so infested with snakes
Our Maintenance Controller lived on the base and spent many enjoyable hours at his home and at the golf course clubhouse (the non up market one) eating the great food there..not to mention the ice cold beer.
The only thing which made me glad to live off base was the huge numbers of resident Black Cobras (spitting variety native to the Island)...I have never seen a place so infested with snakes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update. It looks as if the better bungalows, centre of first pic, are being retained.
Avionics - February 2010
Avionics - February 2010