Old "Props" and Long Sectors
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, now, that Coast Guard ship that the PanAmerican Stratocruiser just 'happened to find' was, in fact, Ocean Station November, which steamed in a grid pattern at 30N 140W for many many years.
(Not always the same ship, of course, it was changed out every eight weeks).
It had a 1KW NDB on board (360kc) and provided unsurpassed navigational aid for over 800 miles.
Flown over it many times with DC-6B and 1649 Constellation aircraft.
Ah, the good 'ole days.
NB.
The concerned PanAm B377 was very unlucky.
A propeller overspeed which required the fire handle to be pulled (failed prop feather oil line) to seize the engine and...a General Electric turbocharger failure on another engine.
Just not their day.
(Not always the same ship, of course, it was changed out every eight weeks).
It had a 1KW NDB on board (360kc) and provided unsurpassed navigational aid for over 800 miles.
Flown over it many times with DC-6B and 1649 Constellation aircraft.
Ah, the good 'ole days.
NB.
The concerned PanAm B377 was very unlucky.
A propeller overspeed which required the fire handle to be pulled (failed prop feather oil line) to seize the engine and...a General Electric turbocharger failure on another engine.
Just not their day.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the '50's, my father used to fly as a passenger in Pan Am Stratocruisers crossing the Pacific service periodically. He told that on one he met a Stewardess who had been on a previous flight which had ditched successfully without losing a single life. My recollection is that she had said this was after a total engine failure and that the aircraft had glided down to its ditching. Pehaps I'm wrong - maybe she was on this flight. (Was there ANOTHER Stratocruiser ditrching which involved total engine failure and resulted in no casualties?)
I recall he asked her what the most frightening bit, and she'd said: "waiting during the descent; it took 20 minutes".
Sitting in the Stratocruiser's successor more recently, as a guest of Sir Richard or of BA, I've often wondered whether it would be possible to ditch a 747?
I recall he asked her what the most frightening bit, and she'd said: "waiting during the descent; it took 20 minutes".
Sitting in the Stratocruiser's successor more recently, as a guest of Sir Richard or of BA, I've often wondered whether it would be possible to ditch a 747?
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nottingham UK
Age: 85
Posts: 5,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was another Boeing 377 Stratocruiser lost that year when it ditched but not due to engine failure.
On the 2nd April 1956 Northwest Flight 2 (Seattle-Portland-Chicago-New York) took off from Seattle at 08:06. As the aircraft reached 2000 feet, at 145 knots airspeed, the flaps were retracted. Severe buffeting started and the aircraft tended to roll to the left. Thinking it was an asymmetric flap condition, the captain reduced power to stop the buffeting, but of no avail. Full power was applied again and plans were made to divert to McChord AFB. The plane continued to lose altitude and was not able to reach McChord. A ditching was carried out in Puget Sound. The aircraft sank 15 minutes after the ditching. It appeared that the aircraft had taken off with the engine cowl flaps fully open.
All 38 on board escaped from the aircraft but 5 people died in the cold water before being picked up.
On the 2nd April 1956 Northwest Flight 2 (Seattle-Portland-Chicago-New York) took off from Seattle at 08:06. As the aircraft reached 2000 feet, at 145 knots airspeed, the flaps were retracted. Severe buffeting started and the aircraft tended to roll to the left. Thinking it was an asymmetric flap condition, the captain reduced power to stop the buffeting, but of no avail. Full power was applied again and plans were made to divert to McChord AFB. The plane continued to lose altitude and was not able to reach McChord. A ditching was carried out in Puget Sound. The aircraft sank 15 minutes after the ditching. It appeared that the aircraft had taken off with the engine cowl flaps fully open.
All 38 on board escaped from the aircraft but 5 people died in the cold water before being picked up.
JetBlast member 2005.
JetBlast member 2006.
Banned 2007
JetBlast member 2006.
Banned 2007
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The US of A - sort of
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At last! something to contribute 
Back around 1985 I lived with a young lady in Santa Barbara and I took a temporary job at the airport (actually in Goleta) with Tracor (?) doing document control on a conversion of United's DC10s. They were putting the galley upstairs AND adding extra seats
I remember seing this aircraft sitting on the ramp with the cockpit burned out. The sadness I felt at seeing this was soon eclipsed by the sadness I felt when the delightful J******r poilitely told me I had exceeded my operational lifespan.
I'm still in touch with her friend though
Back around 1985 I lived with a young lady in Santa Barbara and I took a temporary job at the airport (actually in Goleta) with Tracor (?) doing document control on a conversion of United's DC10s. They were putting the galley upstairs AND adding extra seats
I remember seing this aircraft sitting on the ramp with the cockpit burned out. The sadness I felt at seeing this was soon eclipsed by the sadness I felt when the delightful J******r poilitely told me I had exceeded my operational lifespan.
I'm still in touch with her friend though
That's the John Conroy Tri-Turbo 3 version of the DC-3, with 3 P&W PT-6 engines in place of the 2 P&W R1830's pistons. I think there was only one of them ever converted to 3 engines. I know it was flown on skis in the Arctic somewhere, Alaska maybe. Before this attempt, Conroy had converted another DC-3 to RR 500 series Darts. It wasn't a commercial success either. There's a firm in Oshkosh WI, Basler, that does do a great freighter conversion of the DC-3 with 2 PT-6's. They install a fuselage plug to increase the cargo capacity.
* See below.
Last edited by WHBM; 4th May 2007 at 07:18.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,649
Received 309 Likes
on
171 Posts
Sure they were Darts 411A, I know some of the Basler PT-6 conversions ended up out there (in the last decade or two)? The SAAF liked their Daks!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Bay, Ontario, Canada
Age: 70
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Old props and long sectors
"Can I also mention the wartime QANTAS Catalina service from Ceylon to Perth.This often involved over 30 hours in the air at 127mph." - Renfrew
G'day Chaps
Quantas Empire Airways commenced flying boat service between Ceylon and Western Australia in July 1943. The route flown four times-weekly, was 3, 523 miles long making it at the time the longest non-stop trans-ocean flight in the world. If it had not been for the fact that the Cocos Islands were a possible target of attack by the Japanese, the service may never have been implemented.
The Consolidated Catalinas were fitted with special fuel and oil tanks at the corporation's workshops in the U.K. Marine Base.
Quantas Empire Airways supplemented the route later on with the use of the Consolidated Liberator which linked up with Tasman Empire Airways.
Avro Lancastrians flew a high-speed mail run (including a limited number of pax) from the United Kingdom to New Zealand during the latter stages of the war. The time enroute was 86 hous and at the time was the longest civil air route in the world.
Cheers...Chris
G'day Chaps
Quantas Empire Airways commenced flying boat service between Ceylon and Western Australia in July 1943. The route flown four times-weekly, was 3, 523 miles long making it at the time the longest non-stop trans-ocean flight in the world. If it had not been for the fact that the Cocos Islands were a possible target of attack by the Japanese, the service may never have been implemented.
The Consolidated Catalinas were fitted with special fuel and oil tanks at the corporation's workshops in the U.K. Marine Base.
Quantas Empire Airways supplemented the route later on with the use of the Consolidated Liberator which linked up with Tasman Empire Airways.
Avro Lancastrians flew a high-speed mail run (including a limited number of pax) from the United Kingdom to New Zealand during the latter stages of the war. The time enroute was 86 hous and at the time was the longest civil air route in the world.
Cheers...Chris
Passengers on the Perth - Ceylon PBY flights were given a membership in the "Order of the Double Sunrise" because the sun rose twice during the time it took to complete the flight. 
In the interest of accuracy, allow me to rephrase my statement about the commercial success of the Dart powered DC-3.
Of the more than 10,000 examples of the DC-3/C-47 that were produced, a handful were converted to RR Dart turboprops. This seems to indicate the conversion was less than a resounding success.
In the interest of accuracy, allow me to rephrase my statement about the commercial success of the Dart powered DC-3.
Of the more than 10,000 examples of the DC-3/C-47 that were produced, a handful were converted to RR Dart turboprops. This seems to indicate the conversion was less than a resounding success.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Darts? Darts...whose got 'd Darts?
No doubt about it, treadigraph, you can't miss the whine at 'round about 11,000 RPM, or slightly lower.
Quick, cover 'yer ears, the Darts are a commin'...
Quick, cover 'yer ears, the Darts are a commin'...
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The British, forget which airline (BEA?), converted a few DC-3's to Darts to gain experience with their operation prior to the introduction of the Viscounts.
BEA Dart Dakotas
The two BEA turboprop DC3s were G-ALXN and G-AMDB which were converted in 1951, being paid for by the government as part of their development support for the Viscount and the Dart. Field Aircraft at Tollerton did the work, which took much of 1951. They tended to operate cruising at 25,000 feet so the crew must have been on oxygen. A range of technical issues arose (it was principally a development project) with engine icing (ever the bugbear of early turboprops) and the water-methanol system. They were converted back at the end of 1953.
The two BEA turboprop DC3s were G-ALXN and G-AMDB which were converted in 1951, being paid for by the government as part of their development support for the Viscount and the Dart. Field Aircraft at Tollerton did the work, which took much of 1951. They tended to operate cruising at 25,000 feet so the crew must have been on oxygen. A range of technical issues arose (it was principally a development project) with engine icing (ever the bugbear of early turboprops) and the water-methanol system. They were converted back at the end of 1953.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,649
Received 309 Likes
on
171 Posts
The Dart certainly posseses a distinctive note but I'll venture that it is not as pleassing to the ear as radials...!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is quite true, treadigraph, the Darts are screamers alright on the ground, but OK in flight.
However, having said this, the radials I flew were always a delight.
Most reliable, Pratt&Whitney R-2800CB16 (DC-6B).
Most fuel efficient, CurtisWright 3350 turbocompound series (L1649).
Smoothest....P&W R-4360's.
The latter were almost turbine-like, and of course, were fitted to the Stratocruiser, which I flew for only a short time.
All too short, actually, now that I think about it.
The jets simply are not in the same class...a bygone era where it was an adventure to fly.
However, having said this, the radials I flew were always a delight.
Most reliable, Pratt&Whitney R-2800CB16 (DC-6B).
Most fuel efficient, CurtisWright 3350 turbocompound series (L1649).
Smoothest....P&W R-4360's.
The latter were almost turbine-like, and of course, were fitted to the Stratocruiser, which I flew for only a short time.
All too short, actually, now that I think about it.
The jets simply are not in the same class...a bygone era where it was an adventure to fly.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wet Coast
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 411A
Having been in South Africa a few years ago I was surprised to find not one but several DC-3's with Dart engines,
I'm with treadigraph, the SA goonies were undoubtedly Basler (PT6) conversions. AFAIK there were but 4 Dart-powered ones: an RAF Dakota in 1947, the two aforementioned BEA ones and Jack Conroy's N4700C. There was also a Mamba-powered one (RAF) which was restored to PWs and demobbed. I don't have the RAF serials, but I'm sure they will be instantly forthcoming....
Edited to add: also N156WC, but that was a C-117/R4D-8.
Last edited by PaperTiger; 4th May 2007 at 17:31.
Three retired F-27 pilots were discussing world affairs one very windy morning.
"Windy, isn't it?" opined the first.
"No, it's Thursday" said the second.
"Yeah, me too'' said the third, "let's go for a beer."
"Windy, isn't it?" opined the first.
"No, it's Thursday" said the second.
"Yeah, me too'' said the third, "let's go for a beer."
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,649
Received 309 Likes
on
171 Posts
Pigboat, I'd aver you were in the pub with me tonight, except you appear to be several thousand miles further west...
PT, I agree; 411A, they had to be Basler DC-3s. But I 'm with you on the radials... my favourite sound is that of four R2800s thrusting a DC-6 over my head in the wee hours in the UK out of Heathrow until fairly recently. That and the Tigercat, we are going to miss that particular delight in the UK.
PT, I agree; 411A, they had to be Basler DC-3s. But I 'm with you on the radials... my favourite sound is that of four R2800s thrusting a DC-6 over my head in the wee hours in the UK out of Heathrow until fairly recently. That and the Tigercat, we are going to miss that particular delight in the UK.