Churchill and uniforms
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Churchill and uniforms
Hopefully, this will fit within the pprune boundaries, and to help tie to aviation, I'll mention the RAF uniform, but I am wondering if anyone here can shed light on Churchill's wearing of various uniforms during WWII?
Was it 'kosher?' (I know, no one would have told him to stop....)
Why did he do it?
I am not insulting the man or his memory, just the odd thought that popped in while doing some reading.
Was it 'kosher?' (I know, no one would have told him to stop....)
Why did he do it?
I am not insulting the man or his memory, just the odd thought that popped in while doing some reading.
Yes, Him
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From: West Sussex, UK
Brick, I think that he was an Honorary Air Commodore of one of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force Squadrons, which gave him a somewhat tenuous link, but how he got away with wearing Wings...dunno.
Best wait for Archimedes to come along, he's a dab hand at RAF traditions, protocol and such.
Best wait for Archimedes to come along, he's a dab hand at RAF traditions, protocol and such.
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From: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Winston Churchill was created an honourary Air Commodore of a squadron in Scotland during World War II, and wore his RAF uniform on many notable occasions during the war (such as his visit to North Africa and a state visit to meet Josef Stalin)
Wings??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._Force_members
Wings??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._Force_members
I'll mak siccar
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From: Tir nan Og
He got away with the "wings" because he had taken flying training in the early days of aviation. I believe it was when he was First Lord of the Admiralty in WWI. I can't remember now where I read all this, but he was prevailed on to give it up in light of his senior ministerial office, and because his instructor, an officer of the RN, wrote himself off in a crash.
Incidentally, I was told many years ago by a senior officer that Churchill was the man who actually created "wings". As told to me, he had just got back from a trip to France, where he had bought a Napoleonic "Eagle" brooch as a gift for Mrs Churchill. He was in discussion with Captain Murray Sueter, and the topic of a special badge for pilots came up. "Something like this"? he said, and held the eagle against Sueter's sleeve. And so it befell.
Incidentally, I was told many years ago by a senior officer that Churchill was the man who actually created "wings". As told to me, he had just got back from a trip to France, where he had bought a Napoleonic "Eagle" brooch as a gift for Mrs Churchill. He was in discussion with Captain Murray Sueter, and the topic of a special badge for pilots came up. "Something like this"? he said, and held the eagle against Sueter's sleeve. And so it befell.
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From: Nottingham UK
Extract from the The Churchill Society
"He was transferred by the Prime Minister to the Admiralty in October 1911, and when the Germans sent a gunboat to Agadir, (a Moroccan port to which France had claims), Churchill became convinced that in any major Franco-German conflict, Britain would have to ally herself with France. Time revealed this to be inspired political perception and foresight and enabled Churchill to campaign successfully in the Cabinet for the largest naval expenditure in British history.
He found the Admiralty riven with terrible feuding and set about the immediate total reform of the entire Admiralty and in the process brought the Navy to a state of instant readiness. He even learned to fly, much to the horror and anxiety of his young wife."
Twenty-nine years after he made his first solo flight, Prime Minister Winston Churchill, honorary Air Commodore, won his R.A.F. wings. Said the citation: the Prime Minister's part in the creation of the R.A.F., his "30,000 miles of flying on duty during the present war," his work as Minister of Defense "constitute unique qualifications."
Sir Winston Churchill was an Honorary Air Commodore of No. 615 squadron
"He was transferred by the Prime Minister to the Admiralty in October 1911, and when the Germans sent a gunboat to Agadir, (a Moroccan port to which France had claims), Churchill became convinced that in any major Franco-German conflict, Britain would have to ally herself with France. Time revealed this to be inspired political perception and foresight and enabled Churchill to campaign successfully in the Cabinet for the largest naval expenditure in British history.
He found the Admiralty riven with terrible feuding and set about the immediate total reform of the entire Admiralty and in the process brought the Navy to a state of instant readiness. He even learned to fly, much to the horror and anxiety of his young wife."
Twenty-nine years after he made his first solo flight, Prime Minister Winston Churchill, honorary Air Commodore, won his R.A.F. wings. Said the citation: the Prime Minister's part in the creation of the R.A.F., his "30,000 miles of flying on duty during the present war," his work as Minister of Defense "constitute unique qualifications."
Sir Winston Churchill was an Honorary Air Commodore of No. 615 squadron
Gentleman Aviator
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From: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
"Special consideration" by the Air Force Board also allowed HM King George V to wear wings on RAF uniform. ISTR that they were the only 2 people ever authorised in an "extra-regulatory" manner.
George VI qualified "properly", and in fact got married (as Duke of York) in RAF Ceremonial Dress, a "rig" that didn't survive WWII.
George VI qualified "properly", and in fact got married (as Duke of York) in RAF Ceremonial Dress, a "rig" that didn't survive WWII.
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From: Swindonshire
I think Churchill gave up flying on the orders of Clemmie - in one of Sir Martin Gilbert's volumes there's a letter from WSC in which he rather sheepisly agrees to do what he's told and stop flying. There are times when I rather think that Hitler was fortunate that it was Mr Churchill who was PM rather than Mrs C....
He was also a former 11th Hussars officer, and having commanded a battalion on the western front, quibbles about him wearing army uniform were non-existant. I think he also wore RN uniform on occasions - whether this was completely 'legitimate' or not I'm not certain, but neither George VI or the RN seemed to mind.
He was also a former 11th Hussars officer, and having commanded a battalion on the western front, quibbles about him wearing army uniform were non-existant. I think he also wore RN uniform on occasions - whether this was completely 'legitimate' or not I'm not certain, but neither George VI or the RN seemed to mind.
I'll mak siccar
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From: Tir nan Og
Let me demur, Archimedes, on the RN uniform. WSC did wear a creation, often seen in photographs, of his own design I believe, fundamentally an RN officer's reefer without insignia of rank. The cap, too, appears to have been a "reasonable facsimile" rather than pusser's issue. I do not recall ever seeing him shown as wearing an RN officer's cap badge. Maybe there is published authority one way or the other. I am pretty sure there must be, somewhere.
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From: Nottingham UK
Sir Winston Churchill's Naval Uniform
Davaar wrote:- "Let me demur, Archimedes, on the RN uniform. WSC did wear a creation, often seen in photographs, of his own design I believe, fundamentally an RN officer's reefer without insignia of rank. The cap, too, appears to have been a "reasonable facsimile" rather than pusser's issue."
As Davaar stated Sir Winston did not wear the uniform of a Royal Navy Officer. It was in fact the uniform of the Royal Yacht Squadron.
As Davaar stated Sir Winston did not wear the uniform of a Royal Navy Officer. It was in fact the uniform of the Royal Yacht Squadron.
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From: Nottingham UK
This is a cold-cast resin bronze of Sir Winston Churchill in the captain's uniform of the Royal Yacht Squadron with navy blue reefer jacket. He habitually wore this very personal and entirely unofficial concoction when going abourd HM ships or visiting RN shore establishmets during World War II. This bust is modelled by Anthony Leonard for Heritage Sculptures. The wooden plinth is of oak removed from Havengore, during her restoration. Havengore was the former Port of London Authority launch that carried Churchill's coffin down the Thames after his State funeral in 1965.
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From: Nottingham
Stalling between two fools
Sir W was percieved to be at best a hamfist of the first order. I recall reading somewhere that one particular arsey landing came about due to a 'misunderstanding' between student and instructor (Avro 504) if I think Instrutor 'Rather a case of falling between two stools sir'. 
Winston, darkly, 'More like stalling between two fools' But yes he was persuaded to give up thank god.
Winston, darkly, 'More like stalling between two fools' But yes he was persuaded to give up thank god.
I'll mak siccar
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From: Tir nan Og
As a follow-up to Archimedes's post # 8 above on Churchill's right to wear army uniform, I seem to recall reading many years ago that Churchill was recommended for the VC at Omdurman or some such action, but it was killed by Kitchener, who could not stand him at any price. Can anyone confirm this? I believe his service in the trenches was as Lieut Col of a battalion of the Royal Scots, and that Sir Archibald Sinclair (later Minister for Air) was the colonel.
Resident insomniac
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From: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
An explanation (?) of WC's 'VC' :- http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/...cfm?pageid=638
(well down towards the bottom, as VC is mentioned in several places . . . )
(well down towards the bottom, as VC is mentioned in several places . . . )
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As I recall the last proper "Navy Minister" was Keith Speed (The title of "First Lord of the Admiralty" had disapeared with the formation of the MoD.) in Thatcher's first government. He wore a Churchillian yachting rig too.
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From: UK
Churchill was always interested in both the art and potential of "flying" as an instrment of peace or war. Maybe he didn't qualify for his wings, but in the grand scheme of things he surely earned them.
And topically, he wasn`t afraid to make a few bob selling his war stories to the press...
Churchill flying with an Auxilliary Squadron circa 1938
And topically, he wasn`t afraid to make a few bob selling his war stories to the press...
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From: Nottingham UK
windriver:-
And topically, he wasn`t afraid to make a few bob selling his war stories to the press...
However, how can one possibly compare Churchill's articles with what was recently published in the Sun?
And topically, he wasn`t afraid to make a few bob selling his war stories to the press...
However, how can one possibly compare Churchill's articles with what was recently published in the Sun?
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From: UK
However, how can one possibly compare Churchill's articles with what was recently published in the Sun?
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From: U/K
Winston S
Just as a slight diversion, but towards a gong of sorts, try reading "River War" by Sir W. and for that matter, "Malakand Field Force" as well. Both are freely downloadable at www.gutenburg.org from the main page. There is also another available there, on the South African War about his efforts from Ladysmith to Pretoria via Mafeking. There's no doubt that he did his bit. "VC" I dont I dont think so!