Black BOAC Avro York?
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Black BOAC Avro York?
Hi all
Just come across this photo:
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...simon/agjc.jpg
of an all-over dark coloured Avro York G-AGJC in BOAC service. I've seen a profile of it in the Avro York book in the Profile Publications series, and it's black in that. Can anyone confirm whther it's black, and if so, why, and if not, what colour?
Cheers
Simon
PS - the nose and tail were cropped on the original print
Just come across this photo:
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...simon/agjc.jpg
of an all-over dark coloured Avro York G-AGJC in BOAC service. I've seen a profile of it in the Avro York book in the Profile Publications series, and it's black in that. Can anyone confirm whther it's black, and if so, why, and if not, what colour?
Cheers
Simon
PS - the nose and tail were cropped on the original print
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I know the Avro York that you mean and I've also got the Profile Publication with a side view of it in.
It wasn't black but very dark blue, the same colour as the BOAC logo of the time. It was almost a reversal of the normal BOAC colour scheme of the time which was silver with dark blue logos and lettering.
Hope this helps
MDLB
It wasn't black but very dark blue, the same colour as the BOAC logo of the time. It was almost a reversal of the normal BOAC colour scheme of the time which was silver with dark blue logos and lettering.
Hope this helps
MDLB
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Thanks for the answer MDLB. I had a sneaking suspicion that it wasn't black, to be honest. The relative tones in the photo aren't right for a black overall acheme, as the red in the flag on the tail appears darker that the tail itself, and the tail appears to be the same tone as the blue in the flag.
I've figured how to load the image, rather than hyperlinking it (I think!):
I've figured how to load the image, rather than hyperlinking it (I think!):
wwrsimon,
I don't know if this helps to explain their colour scheme, but there were at least 2 Yorks used by BOAC for crew training, mainly navigators.
G-AGJC was one, and I know that G-AGSO was another.
The aeroplanes were seemingly deployed for a week at a time to Gibraltar ( and possibly other similar locations ) from where they roamed around the oceans with navigators learning their trade in the back.
I believe most of the flying was at night - star sights presumably work better then!
Also, during the second week, an engine would be shut down, and a 3 engiined practiced!
In some weird way, their role may have a bearing on the colour scheme.
BSD.
I don't know if this helps to explain their colour scheme, but there were at least 2 Yorks used by BOAC for crew training, mainly navigators.
G-AGJC was one, and I know that G-AGSO was another.
The aeroplanes were seemingly deployed for a week at a time to Gibraltar ( and possibly other similar locations ) from where they roamed around the oceans with navigators learning their trade in the back.
I believe most of the flying was at night - star sights presumably work better then!
Also, during the second week, an engine would be shut down, and a 3 engiined practiced!
In some weird way, their role may have a bearing on the colour scheme.
BSD.
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wwrsimon
I think you were correct the first time in that the finish was black. The following profile appears on the "Wings Palette
Avia Camouflage Profiles Archive" website:-
http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grisha...ics/5000_2.jpg
Avia Camouflage Profiles Archive" website:-
http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grisha...ics/5000_2.jpg
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Yes, I saw that. I think it's actually a scan of the one from the Profile Publications book as mentioned by MDLB above. I'm still convinced it's not black, simply because the photo I have seems to show the colour to be too light in tone to be black.
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wwrsimon said...
"Yes, I saw that. I think it's actually a scan of the one from the Profile Publications book as mentioned by MDLB above. I'm still convinced it's not black, simply because the photo I have seems to show the colour to be too light in tone to be black."
The tyres are presumably black/ish and are much darker than the paintwork.
Comparison with the tailfin flag suggests it is blue/ish?
Aviate1138
"Yes, I saw that. I think it's actually a scan of the one from the Profile Publications book as mentioned by MDLB above. I'm still convinced it's not black, simply because the photo I have seems to show the colour to be too light in tone to be black."
The tyres are presumably black/ish and are much darker than the paintwork.
Comparison with the tailfin flag suggests it is blue/ish?
Aviate1138
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I recall reading a few years ago that the emulsions used on WWII photographic stock could give some very strange effects on B + W prints, to the extent that on several photos of aircraft with yellow rings around their roundels the yellow had the same or darker tonal qualities than the bright blue and red they surround. Interpretation of B + W is very difficult, surely there is a record of the airframe somewhere?
Kraka mate,
I missed out a vital word - diversion!
I think the idea was to give the trainee navigators a real live 3-engined diversion/RTB whilst en-route. At some point during the flight, presumably near the crit.point, the navigator examiner would ask the Captain to shut down an engine, and feverish nav. activity would then take place.
The trainee navigators course seems to have involved around 14 training flights of around 7 hours duration each, with the aircraft heading out to Gibraltar at the start of each week.
I'll warrant the hardest trick was learning to think straight with 4 of those Merlins thundering away just a few feet from one's ears! Heaven knows what the din must have been like.
BSD
I missed out a vital word - diversion!
I think the idea was to give the trainee navigators a real live 3-engined diversion/RTB whilst en-route. At some point during the flight, presumably near the crit.point, the navigator examiner would ask the Captain to shut down an engine, and feverish nav. activity would then take place.
The trainee navigators course seems to have involved around 14 training flights of around 7 hours duration each, with the aircraft heading out to Gibraltar at the start of each week.
I'll warrant the hardest trick was learning to think straight with 4 of those Merlins thundering away just a few feet from one's ears! Heaven knows what the din must have been like.
BSD
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A.J Jackson in his book Avro Aircraft since 1908 by Putnam details the following regarding York G-AGJC:-
Five Avro Yorks Serial Nos MW103,108,113,121 and 129 c/n 1207-1211 were five early Yorks and were configured as a combination of passenger/freight. These aircraft were ‘borrowed’ from the RAF and allotted to BOAC as G-AGJA-JE. They seated 12 passengers in the rear of the cabin (with the freight forward) and inaugurated the first UK-Cairo route via Morocco on April 22 1944.
G-AGJA ‘Mildenhall’, later BSAA ‘Star Fortune’ and BOAC ‘Kingston’, *t/s WW541 and WW508.
G-AGJB ‘Marathon’, t/s WW503,
G-AGJC ‘Malmesbury’, t/s WW504, to Skyways Nov 1957
G-AGJD ‘Mansfield’,
G-AGJE ‘Middlesex’ later BSAA ‘Star Way’ and BOAC ‘Panama’, t/s WW580
* Trooping Serial Number
This is a photograph of one of these aircraft G-AGJA in wartime colours.However it does not mean they were all in this configuration.
Five Avro Yorks Serial Nos MW103,108,113,121 and 129 c/n 1207-1211 were five early Yorks and were configured as a combination of passenger/freight. These aircraft were ‘borrowed’ from the RAF and allotted to BOAC as G-AGJA-JE. They seated 12 passengers in the rear of the cabin (with the freight forward) and inaugurated the first UK-Cairo route via Morocco on April 22 1944.
G-AGJA ‘Mildenhall’, later BSAA ‘Star Fortune’ and BOAC ‘Kingston’, *t/s WW541 and WW508.
G-AGJB ‘Marathon’, t/s WW503,
G-AGJC ‘Malmesbury’, t/s WW504, to Skyways Nov 1957
G-AGJD ‘Mansfield’,
G-AGJE ‘Middlesex’ later BSAA ‘Star Way’ and BOAC ‘Panama’, t/s WW580
* Trooping Serial Number
This is a photograph of one of these aircraft G-AGJA in wartime colours.However it does not mean they were all in this configuration.
Last edited by MReyn24050; 28th Feb 2007 at 11:46.
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BSD
BSD, understand the "diversion". Very realistic training !
You may think four Merlins were a bit loud, believe me they were pussycats compared to four Griffons and eight props as my mate SHACK wil tell you
You may think four Merlins were a bit loud, believe me they were pussycats compared to four Griffons and eight props as my mate SHACK wil tell you
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Noise of the York
Whilst working on my sea plane rating at Lydd, one of the "instructors" flew them. He said that on one occasion (I suspect there had been a delay), the passengers were clawing at the door to get out once he'd arrived at the "gate".
Whilst working on my sea plane rating at Lydd, one of the "instructors" flew them. He said that on one occasion (I suspect there had been a delay), the passengers were clawing at the door to get out once he'd arrived at the "gate".
