BAC One-Eleven

[RETDPI]

I don't wan't to cause a significant thread drift from the 1-11 topic but I was led to believe that the 707 /KC-135 family all had a Stability Augmentation System:originally evolved from one first first developed to cure severe dutch rolling inherent in the B-47. Perhaps somebody with first-hand fleet experience could comment or clear this one up?

[k3k3]

E3 aircraft have two yaw damper systems, a series yaw damper as the primary and a parallel yaw damper as a back up. Both systems must be serviceable before flight.

[stanley]

all the 707s had yaw dampping, the early ones had parallel and the 300s had series if I remember correctly.
you are correct the back of the A/C looked very intresting from the front of the cabin.

[om15]

British jets of the 50s

Despite the earlier rather unkind and disparaging reference to the Herald, this aeroplane was in the early stages of further development until the demise of HP, on the drawing board were;
HP127, a modified Herald with two RR Speys in under wing pods.
HP125, a military type Herald with 18 vertical lift RR RB162 jets in pods under the wings.
HP 132 Herald with uprated Darts plus two GE CF700 turbo fans in wing tip pods.
There were other military/cargo type variants, but the ones above do stir the imagination! yes, the Herald was a little over British, but not dreadful, did the job and was a very good freighter for many years,
best regards,
om15

[jedigtr]

I used to work for DanAir in the late 80's early 90's and one of my summer roles was supplying demineralised water for the water injection system on the 1-11, had great fun tootling around LGW in my ancient water bowser filling the tanks or chucking barrels onboard for the return leg

[Midland 331]

Midland ran them circa '69-'70, and I recall going with my dad to Castle Donington Power Station to collect supplies.

Dad was always a bit miffed that it was dumped soon after departure....

r

[Ye Olde Pilot]

The ill fated Welsh airline Airways Cymru launched with an old 1-11 in the late 80's. Despite the hush kit it was still very noisy.


I'm not sure if choosing old 1-11's was a good business move. They were always breaking down.


G-WLAD parked on the old stand 13 at EGFF (Cardiff)

[Amos Keeto]

One-Elevens still flying - not many. Here in UK, there are three which all fly from Boscombe Down - Srs.432s ZE432 with ETPS, ZE433 with Tyhoon's nose radar and Series 500 ZH563 also on radar trails. There are one or two still in Romania, I believe, the Oman Air Force still has three and there are a few executive 1-11s around in the States and possibly in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia etc.

[jabberwok]

Bet you remember this then..

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1165089/M/

The hump on 09/27 caused some uncomfortable nosewheel bouncing on that 1-11.

[Midland 331]

I once heard a story of it arriving at Leeds on 27 "firmly", and all the oxygen masks deploying. Welcome to Leeds. Can 27 accept a 1-11?

r

[tornadoken]

OM15: Herald not dreadful (wandering a bit, but WTH). What separated 1950s' Brit sites from, say Fokker, who thrashed Herald in the marketplace, was not skill, but focus. I visited Radlett in 1962: 3 lines in the same Listed (listing) shed had Hastings on Major Service, new-build and Autoland-retrofit Victor B.2, and Herald new build. Try to imagine yourself as Works Manager at shift change, moving bodies, tools, parts, grubby paper! Multi-tasking or what? Part-BEAC-owned Aer Lingus was F.27 Launch Customer, rejecting HP in part due to Fokker chasing harder for the business.
All 3 types had 1947 in common - when Victor was schemed and bid, Hastings was in flight trials, and (to be H.P.R.3 Herald) Miles M.73 was designed with 4xAlvis Leonides, because Dart then had no funding and ASM Mamba was hurting (to be H.P.R.1) M.60 Marathon.

[reynoldsno1]

The Omani Air Force 1-11's are unusual in that they have the rough field u/c. One of them was converted to a PCF fit, the belly holds being converted to fuel tanks so that it could transit Oman-UK with just one tech stop.

I believe they (1-11s in general) don't have a fatigue life...???

[Fly380]

If you didnt get the aircraft down on RW27 Jersey pretty bl**dy quick then there was a surprise waiting for you at the other end. A CLIFF ! And as for those drop down oxygen masks - WHAT DROP DOWN MASKS????? The BCal 500 series didnt have them and were restricted to a cruise altitude of FL350 (as a result) as far as I remember. That water injection system was a joy until the water ran out and you got that sinking feeling and dont even mention the WIFFLE tree. It was a great aeroplane to fly

[IcePaq]

I could swear I was still seeing the raf operating this plane at dulles as late as 1998.

It's always fun to watch people wearing ear protection try to clamp them ever tighter as the plane taxis about the ramp at signature.

[jedigtr]

It's always fun to watch people wearing ear protection try to clamp them ever tighter as the plane taxis about the ramp at signature.

You wanna try standing under the #2 eng when it's being run at full power! Lucky I had ear defenders with me that day

[boris]

Fly 380

I'm afraid your memory is at fault! All 1-11s had drop-down masks.
This was/is a certification requirement for flight above FL250. The maximum permitted FL350 was due to the max pressure diff. of 7.5 psi.
Should one make a (hardish) landing, the over-sensitive g-switches on the mask doors would operate, alloowing the rubber jungle to deploy. The general rule was, "if you dropped'em, you re-stowed 'em". Obviously your landings were pretty good!
Brilliant aircraft to fly, I agree, particulaly with the drooped l/e of the 500s allowing a straight climb to 350, even at max TOW!

[Flightwatch]

I'm afraid your memory is at fault! All 1-11s had drop-down masks.

Wrong!

I did 14 years, flying 6,000 hours and 6,000 sectors on the "Super 1-11" and I can assure you there were no drop down masks. As Fly 380 correctly said it was consequently limited to 350.

Although it would indeed go directly to FL350 at max weight it was actually outside it's performance parameters to do so - however "coffin corner" wasn't much considered in short-haul jets those days! (Also the Super was artificially MTOW limited to save on landing charges until it's last few years).

The S1-11 did do pretty good autolands though, considering the avionics fit, it was certified to CAT IIIA with a single autopilot and duplex monitors. I remember a magic box at the rear of the cockpit which lit up a series of numbers to denote the fault which had made it throw the autopilot out. However the half dozen or so genuine CATIII approaches I made worked perfectly, it was the practices that went pear shaped usually.

It also had one of the earliest RNAV fits (before that term was coined) in the name of HARCO. A moving map driven by Decca it could be coupled to the autopilot and waypoints fed in from a turret holding a dozen or so. when it was working it was great but in the Berlin Corridors in bad weather it had a nasty habit of jumping a lane and causing the US controllers there a heart attack in the process with loud cries of "TURN LEFT/RIGHT 4 -0 DEGREES IMMEDIATELY"

Flightwatch

[Fly380]

Thanks Flightwatch. Seems like I dont need to check into the funny farm yet. Perhaps Boris worked for Tarom.

[boris]

Ah yes, Flightwatch, you must have been flying for BEA at the time that they were trying to make all their aircraft "Super", when they were not that super really.
There was certainly a reduced "coffin corner" problem with the improved wing leading edge fitted to later 500s and, I believe, 475s.
Doubtless you will correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall BEA aircraft had the front airstairs replaced with a weight to appease the step-pushers union of BEA. As built, they were also short of water injection and the drooped leading edge. Not so Super really although the flight-deck cupholders were moved slightly from standard in the BA build specification! What profligate money wasters there must have been in certain areas but they managed to get away with no drop-downs!
I understand that, at a similar time, Boeing refused to allow BEA to brand their original 737s the "Super 737" as it would have implied something that it wasn't and thus pee of other customers!

[ZeBedie]

In the late 70's, a BA 1-11 driver told me that the front airstairs were taken away to save weight. They then had CofG problems, so the airstairs were replaced with concrete blocks