Unknown Messerschmitt 109
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Unknown Messerschmitt 109
I'm stuck with the ID of these two aircraft, can anyone help with construction numbers and registrations?
Both pictures taken at RIAT, Fairford in July 2003
Thanks
Rick
Both pictures taken at RIAT, Fairford in July 2003
Thanks
Rick
Gnome de PPRuNe
The Peter Foot 109 is now preserved at Duxford in a diorama portraying its crash scene on the Sussex Downs...
As the original intention (or so I thought) was to get it flying, it does seem a shame particularly as Black Six has been permanently grounded. The German based 109s don't seem to get here very often and those restored in the UK all seem to head across the pond.
As the original intention (or so I thought) was to get it flying, it does seem a shame particularly as Black Six has been permanently grounded. The German based 109s don't seem to get here very often and those restored in the UK all seem to head across the pond.
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That's because the Spits keep shooting 'em down!
(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
Would be nice to see a flying one at an air show, particularly if it was one with the original type engine rather than a post-war re-engined version.
(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
Would be nice to see a flying one at an air show, particularly if it was one with the original type engine rather than a post-war re-engined version.
Last edited by Dop; 18th Oct 2006 at 09:27. Reason: Attempting to drag post back on-topic.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Black Six sounded great, a very different growl to the Merlin... Even if she hadn't been bent she was due to end up at the RAF Museum, Hendon - where they now have two on display I believe.
I
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That exactly is the problem, DB601s are very difficult to get about and there isn't nothing like a replacement even worth consderation. Unless of course, Merlin, but that's the Ha1112 Buchon and in all honesty, that is one tough contender in the ugliest flying machine ever contest. DB englines are alot thirstier too, I believe 45l/hr compared to 30 of Merlin, but that's just a side note.
Gnome de PPRuNe
I believe the EADS aircraft is D-FMBB which I saw flying at Erding as long ago as 1986. So far as I know it's been airworthy ever since.
This one is a static one that EADS cart around the airshows and re-assemble.
As for the German ones not being frequent visitors, I don't think that the EADS (formerly MBB) ones have EVER been over.
Hans Dittes' example was operated by OFMC for a season, other than that, since it's ownership passed to EADS / Messerschmitt Foundation, I'm almost certain that it hasn't visited the UK.
Oh, and W.R.A.I.T.H, if you say things like "that's the Ha1112 Buchon and in all honesty, that is one tough contender in the ugliest flying machine ever contest", you'll upset Batchy. He's very touchy about these things.
As for the German ones not being frequent visitors, I don't think that the EADS (formerly MBB) ones have EVER been over.
Hans Dittes' example was operated by OFMC for a season, other than that, since it's ownership passed to EADS / Messerschmitt Foundation, I'm almost certain that it hasn't visited the UK.
Oh, and W.R.A.I.T.H, if you say things like "that's the Ha1112 Buchon and in all honesty, that is one tough contender in the ugliest flying machine ever contest", you'll upset Batchy. He's very touchy about these things.
Gnome de PPRuNe
No I don't think D-FMBB has ever been to the UK either. Erding was the only place I ever saw it (last Starfighter show, but the Hooters kept going for some years after that!).
So, is the static EADS airframe anything to with D-FMBB #1 which crashed at Neuberg in '83 - how bad was that accident and what happened to it afterwards?
So, is the static EADS airframe anything to with D-FMBB #1 which crashed at Neuberg in '83 - how bad was that accident and what happened to it afterwards?
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Treaders,
You wrote "The Peter Foot 109 is now preserved at Duxford in a diorama portraying its crash scene on the Sussex Downs..."
That's not very accurate. I was an apprentice at Hurn & knew Peter very well. The Emil he had was recovered from a Calgary (?) junkyard after it had outlived its usefulness as a War Bonds trophy (it had been covered in signatures - buy a bond & write your name).
Apparently it was landed by its Lufwaffe pilot at St. Athan after he'd scored his first victory. Trouble was his compass had tumbled during the battle & he mistook the Bristol Channel for the English one. Was told he even did a victory roll before landing.
You wrote "The Peter Foot 109 is now preserved at Duxford in a diorama portraying its crash scene on the Sussex Downs..."
That's not very accurate. I was an apprentice at Hurn & knew Peter very well. The Emil he had was recovered from a Calgary (?) junkyard after it had outlived its usefulness as a War Bonds trophy (it had been covered in signatures - buy a bond & write your name).
Apparently it was landed by its Lufwaffe pilot at St. Athan after he'd scored his first victory. Trouble was his compass had tumbled during the battle & he mistook the Bristol Channel for the English one. Was told he even did a victory roll before landing.
Gnome de PPRuNe
We are both right ICT - Force landed in Sussex, Canada, Foote, Duxford... Info here on the Warbird Information Exchange...
I do recall hearing about a Luffwaffe aircraft landing at St Athan, but I thought that was Me110 or something larger? Anyone?
I do recall hearing about a Luffwaffe aircraft landing at St Athan, but I thought that was Me110 or something larger? Anyone?
Last edited by treadigraph; 1st Feb 2007 at 12:18. Reason: Changing Calagary to say Canada... not sure what mad impulse made me type Calgary...
Well, for historical accuracy, probably more likely to be a Hurricane!
I saw the EADS aircraft displayed at an international test pilots conference in Regensburg in 1998 or 1999, which I attended with Wyvern (and I'm sure that a few other Ppruners were there at the time).
We were all standing at the side of the runway at Manching when the aircraft came level with us for a VERY low pass, when somebody at the back in English but a strong German accent shouted...
"All Englanders.... Duck"
G
If I remember rightly, it was a JU88 night fighter that landed at RAF St Athan (crewed by deserters). Its radar equipment turned a few keys for our boffins.
The FW190 landed at RAF Pembrey, near Swansea; a navigational error as ICT-SLB says.
The FW190 landed at RAF Pembrey, near Swansea; a navigational error as ICT-SLB says.
Gnome de PPRuNe
According to a mate of mine, the victory roll was the Fw190 at Pembrey after a Nav SNAFU.
Genghis, I was mightily embarrassed at Erding (not far down the road from Manching) by another mate on the Last Starfighter trip... As the 109 landed the pilot (whose name escapes me but I have an idea he was a well known unlimited aerobatic pilot) received a well earned round of applause. "Just remember who won the war " said my by now ex-mate quite loudly... My wish to be somewhere else as rapidly as possible was somewhat hampered by the fact that he held our Dan-Air tickets home...
Genghis, I was mightily embarrassed at Erding (not far down the road from Manching) by another mate on the Last Starfighter trip... As the 109 landed the pilot (whose name escapes me but I have an idea he was a well known unlimited aerobatic pilot) received a well earned round of applause. "Just remember who won the war " said my by now ex-mate quite loudly... My wish to be somewhere else as rapidly as possible was somewhat hampered by the fact that he held our Dan-Air tickets home...
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Treaders,
Thanks for the link - my only defence is that that was what I was told! Didn't realise Peter owned her for thirty years.
An American friend of mine was assigned to sort out a hangar medivac near Munich when he was a young Lieutenant in the USAF just after the war as he spoke german (he came from near Philly). His two helpers were Willi Messerschmit & his brother!
Thanks for the link - my only defence is that that was what I was told! Didn't realise Peter owned her for thirty years.
An American friend of mine was assigned to sort out a hangar medivac near Munich when he was a young Lieutenant in the USAF just after the war as he spoke german (he came from near Philly). His two helpers were Willi Messerschmit & his brother!
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The first plane is a replika.
For the 2nd plane look on my website for more informations and photos:
http://www.bf-109.com/web.php?lang=e...be&flugzeug=68
For the 2nd plane look on my website for more informations and photos:
http://www.bf-109.com/web.php?lang=e...be&flugzeug=68
