Shorts Belfast at Southend
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Shorts Belfast at Southend
The HeavyLift Belfast (in addition to the QF 707) is also well on its way to becoming airborne again with all engines on and three with propellers that were run up several times last week. If anyone reading this has times and dates of any full engine runs and test flights I am sure many of us will be there to see this and the 707.
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Can`t help directly with your question I`m afraid, but here it is sans props at the last published satellite pass... Remarkable image go for the birds eye view ..zoom in ... and see it from all directions.
http://www.content-delivery.co.uk/av.../Southend.html
http://www.content-delivery.co.uk/av.../Southend.html
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It appears the oldest images are from about 1999 and the most recent ones come as they are served... 2005 being the most recent reported.
The airfield locations of course remain the same.
I have a requirement to compile a list of UK "flying sites" past and present, but in decimal lat long format for plotting and xml output. Every now and then I generate an index and publish some pages for general interest.
When I`ve completed it I'll make it available as a freebie download so anyone that's interested can use it as they wish.. eg Google Earth, WorldWind or whatever.
The airfield locations of course remain the same.
I have a requirement to compile a list of UK "flying sites" past and present, but in decimal lat long format for plotting and xml output. Every now and then I generate an index and publish some pages for general interest.
When I`ve completed it I'll make it available as a freebie download so anyone that's interested can use it as they wish.. eg Google Earth, WorldWind or whatever.
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Recent photo of G-BEPS
A lot of work appears to have been carried out if you compare this photo from April 06; http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1044434 ...with this photo from December 06; http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.php?id=569028
Porrohman.
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I think it also suffered some damage in the recent winds, as it was moved around 90 degrees, and i gather some damage has been done to the rear loading door.
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Is the damage easily repairable? I hope so.
Does anyone know when test flying is due to commence?
Will it have to visit Prestwick for final checks and approvals before delivery to Oz?
Porrohmann.
Does anyone know when test flying is due to commence?
Will it have to visit Prestwick for final checks and approvals before delivery to Oz?
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I think you'll find he who was responsible for bringing the 1st Belfast to the Polar hangar at Prestwick has now departed and so the aircraft are not expected back here.
As a matter of passing interest, how did Heavy Lift go about getting a C of A for the Belfasts when they bought them? As far as I know the type never saw civil service previously.
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The first Belfast, XR362, was registered G-ASKE for its initial trials.
I don't know enough about registration regulations to say whether that would be relevant to the case of G-BEPS.
I don't know enough about registration regulations to say whether that would be relevant to the case of G-BEPS.
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The Belslow civil registration/certification was carried extensively years ago in Flight International.
It seems (as I recall) that the type required a stick pusher by the UKCAA, but in order to get the type into service sooner, another crew member was carried.
His sole duty was to keep an eye on the indicated airspeed, and if it got too low, he was to shout 'STALL, STALL'.
Strange, but true.
It seems (as I recall) that the type required a stick pusher by the UKCAA, but in order to get the type into service sooner, another crew member was carried.
His sole duty was to keep an eye on the indicated airspeed, and if it got too low, he was to shout 'STALL, STALL'.
Strange, but true.
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The stall characteristics of the Belfast weren't good. The RAF solution was to operate with the stall warning settings well above the actual stalling speed.
In about 1973 a Belfast flying from Cyprus to Brize Norton suffered a failure of the tail de-icing system and the ice build up caused the aircraft to fly tail heavy. At one point they got below the the nominal stalling speed but with no stall warning. I was involved in the programme to reset the stall warning margins on the Belfast fleet. This was a very stomach churning experience - we flew with test equipment wired into the electrical 'cupboard' at the rear right side of the flight compartment and the aircraft could lose up to 5,000 feet in the recovery from a 'clean' stall. After our measurements, adjustments were made to the stall warning vane settings; the resulting stall warning margins were tested and found to give ample warning that the airspeed was getting precarously low, while still being safely above the actual stalling point for the various flap configurations. That solution ought to have sufficed for civil operations.
After a deep stall accident to a BAC1-11 the UKCAA seem to require a stick pusher on just about anything that has a pilot. Its a fact of aerodynamics that anything that can fly can and will stall if the pilot insists on ignoring the signs and/or warnings. I do know of an RAF VC10 incident where the Stall Ident System (i.e. Stick Pusher) activated without warning while close to the ground and the pilot, taken by surprise, almost lost his grip on the control wheel. Now that could have been just as nasty as a deep stall - I believe that Boeing's designers have it right - an accurate and reliable stall warning system is all that is needed.
In about 1973 a Belfast flying from Cyprus to Brize Norton suffered a failure of the tail de-icing system and the ice build up caused the aircraft to fly tail heavy. At one point they got below the the nominal stalling speed but with no stall warning. I was involved in the programme to reset the stall warning margins on the Belfast fleet. This was a very stomach churning experience - we flew with test equipment wired into the electrical 'cupboard' at the rear right side of the flight compartment and the aircraft could lose up to 5,000 feet in the recovery from a 'clean' stall. After our measurements, adjustments were made to the stall warning vane settings; the resulting stall warning margins were tested and found to give ample warning that the airspeed was getting precarously low, while still being safely above the actual stalling point for the various flap configurations. That solution ought to have sufficed for civil operations.
After a deep stall accident to a BAC1-11 the UKCAA seem to require a stick pusher on just about anything that has a pilot. Its a fact of aerodynamics that anything that can fly can and will stall if the pilot insists on ignoring the signs and/or warnings. I do know of an RAF VC10 incident where the Stall Ident System (i.e. Stick Pusher) activated without warning while close to the ground and the pilot, taken by surprise, almost lost his grip on the control wheel. Now that could have been just as nasty as a deep stall - I believe that Boeing's designers have it right - an accurate and reliable stall warning system is all that is needed.
Last edited by Blacksheep; 31st Jul 2007 at 01:33.
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Blacksheep
The prototype BAC1-11 which crashed on Salisbury Plain due to a deep stall was being flown by Mike Lithgow, the then deputy chief test pilot of Vickers. Subsequently, the 1-11 was fitted with both hydraulically powered elevators and a stick push system. Lithgow was the pilot who flew the Swft to a short-lived world speed record of 735 mph in 1953.
The CAA pilot to whom you refer was perhaps D P Davies who was the Chief Airworthiness TP and was well known for the stick pusher requirements on such aircraft as the DC and B727. Davies was the author of the well-known book entitled 'Handling the Big Jets' which was/is the bible of aircraft behaviour for generations of multi-jet pilots.
Your remarks about the 1-11 and the UKCAA are both wrong in fact and a bit unfortunate in tone.
The prototype BAC1-11 which crashed on Salisbury Plain due to a deep stall was being flown by Mike Lithgow, the then deputy chief test pilot of Vickers. Subsequently, the 1-11 was fitted with both hydraulically powered elevators and a stick push system. Lithgow was the pilot who flew the Swft to a short-lived world speed record of 735 mph in 1953.
The CAA pilot to whom you refer was perhaps D P Davies who was the Chief Airworthiness TP and was well known for the stick pusher requirements on such aircraft as the DC and B727. Davies was the author of the well-known book entitled 'Handling the Big Jets' which was/is the bible of aircraft behaviour for generations of multi-jet pilots.
Your remarks about the 1-11 and the UKCAA are both wrong in fact and a bit unfortunate in tone.
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Your remarks about the 1-11 and the UKCAA are both wrong in fact and a bit unfortunate in tone.
A legend has built up around them and that tale has twisted in the telling over the years, so yes, I was out of line regarding the BAC1-11 and I've edited my post accordingly.
I won't apologise for having a go at the CAA though, they're a fair target. We've had quite a bit of nonsense from them over the years, so I always have a dig at our Regional Manager whenever I get the chance and I always will. It helps to keep them straight.
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Shorts Belfast at Southend
Getting back to the original thread, has there been any progress towards getting the Southend Belfast airworthy again? There were reports of engine runs towards the end of 2006 and it was short of one propeller. Has any more work been done since then or has the project to get it airworthy again been abandoned?
Last edited by Porrohman; 4th Oct 2007 at 20:19. Reason: typo
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News on the Belfast at Southend will be forthcoming in the coming few weeks this will happen once commercial confidentiality agreements are signed and an agreed press announcement is ready for release.
I was flying a VC10 on a flapless approach once when the stick pusher activated way above the correct speed. Fortunately I was able to overpower it and had the system dumped.
We found several faults:
1. An AoA probe was sticking. Instead of moving smoothly, the sudden movement was detected as a rapid approach to the stall, triggering the stall protection system earlier than normal due to 'phase advanc'.
2. The aircraft was just back from a prolonged detachment to a dry, dusty location and hadn't been washed for ages.
3. On another VC10, the 'lift rate modifier' which changes the stall protection AoA value with flap/slat configuration hadn't been connected for some years. The cables were neatly tucked behind the aircraft panelling.
4. On that same aircraft, the stall dump lever was inoperative - because a vital pin from the linkage was missing. And had been for many years, as the surface condition of the hole through which the pin should have been fitted bore witness.
This placed rather a lot of doubt on the quality of rebuild carried out prior to delivery to the RAF. As did the fact that the engineers found an ex-BOAC silver teaspoon in the bowels of the aircraft! It had flown with BOAC, then been sold to Gulf Air, then rebuilt as a VC10K2 and flown for years by the RAF until it was discovered.....
All in all, the stick pusher was a complete waste of time. More trouble than it was worth; with 4 people keeping an eye on the IAS and a reasonable stall warning system, the wretched stick pusher and klaxon system was completely unnecessary.
We found several faults:
1. An AoA probe was sticking. Instead of moving smoothly, the sudden movement was detected as a rapid approach to the stall, triggering the stall protection system earlier than normal due to 'phase advanc'.
2. The aircraft was just back from a prolonged detachment to a dry, dusty location and hadn't been washed for ages.
3. On another VC10, the 'lift rate modifier' which changes the stall protection AoA value with flap/slat configuration hadn't been connected for some years. The cables were neatly tucked behind the aircraft panelling.
4. On that same aircraft, the stall dump lever was inoperative - because a vital pin from the linkage was missing. And had been for many years, as the surface condition of the hole through which the pin should have been fitted bore witness.
This placed rather a lot of doubt on the quality of rebuild carried out prior to delivery to the RAF. As did the fact that the engineers found an ex-BOAC silver teaspoon in the bowels of the aircraft! It had flown with BOAC, then been sold to Gulf Air, then rebuilt as a VC10K2 and flown for years by the RAF until it was discovered.....
All in all, the stick pusher was a complete waste of time. More trouble than it was worth; with 4 people keeping an eye on the IAS and a reasonable stall warning system, the wretched stick pusher and klaxon system was completely unnecessary.