Old B &W photo
Pilot of the Airwaves
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Old B &W photo
Anyone got an idea where and what this picture is of?
It was given to me the other day by a former RAF officer, who is now 86 years old.
It was given to me the other day by a former RAF officer, who is now 86 years old.
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wrecks
The centre A/C. certainly a Junkers JU 52 transport,----what remains on the left could well be of a Henchel biplane, ---- in the distance it could be an ME 262 jet fighter.
Dusty
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I'd have said 109 as well, especially looking at the narrow track to the undercarriage.
Look at the second wing on the grund in the foreground...is that a roundel I see before me?
Look at the second wing on the grund in the foreground...is that a roundel I see before me?
Agree that it could be a roundel, however, looking at the terrain in the background, it could be the top surface of an Italian aircraft. Or, simplest solution, it's the Iron Annies' top wing with a red cross over paint!
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I have been wrong about a lot of things, and I'm not saying that today won't bring my next error....
That said, I suspect the center "red crossed" aircraft isn't a Ju-52.
It seems way too small between the known sizes of the Bf-109 (F models ?)
I think it might be a Siebel utility aircraft? Their early "104" had the single vertical layout, but the later "204" had a glass nose. This looks like the glazing frames for the latter, but the empennage is wrong.
Possibly a Siebel model between the two types?
That said, I suspect the center "red crossed" aircraft isn't a Ju-52.
It seems way too small between the known sizes of the Bf-109 (F models ?)
I think it might be a Siebel utility aircraft? Their early "104" had the single vertical layout, but the later "204" had a glass nose. This looks like the glazing frames for the latter, but the empennage is wrong.
Possibly a Siebel model between the two types?
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Hi Folks!
If I may... It is a very interesting picture, but not for the reasons so far discussed.
Firstly, and mundanely, the centre aircraft is (or was) a Junkers Ju 52; and almost certainly it'll be a Ju 52/3m, that being the trimotor version most people think of and are familiar with - as well as the version used by the Luftwaffe in W.W.II. It's certainly a Ju52, because the tailwheel cutout is very characteristic, the fuselage has burnt out aft to the upper gunner's position (the toilet area on civil Ju52/3ms) the tail group looks exactly like it (feel free to compare with other web pictures) and the wing in the foreground is off the same aircraft, the low-slung and separate Junkers aileron's mass balance weight is just visible.
A comparison:
More here: http://www.luchtoorlog.be/ju523m_f2.htm
The other three aircraft look to me like examples of the Messerschmitt Bf 109; the undercarriage of the aircraft in the foreground, is especially characteristic, and only a few aircraft had their wings removable with the undercarriage attaching to the fuselage exactly as seen here - the 109 being the most likely of that group. Also, the straight upper fuselage longeron position when the gun covers, windscreen and canopy is removed is characteristic, and the machine in the centre background has the windscreen still fitted.
What is interesting is that the aircraft have had the engine upper cowling refitted after the engine has been removed - for what purpose I cannot imagine, but that's what makes the picture interesting. It looks a bit like an 'E' or Emil cowling, but not bumpy enough. It's not a 'G' or later, that's certain.
The lack of theatre bands on the Ju52, the unit code 'GC'(?) visible and what I presume is the Wurke Number on the fin should allow a theatre to be defined - it's not, presumably, the Mid East or Russia due to the missing colour bands.
IB4138, I'll PM you a suggestion for further details, but that exhausts my knowledge, and I don't personally deal with Luftwaffe 'Experts'; life's too interesting without them.
Cheers!
If I may... It is a very interesting picture, but not for the reasons so far discussed.
Firstly, and mundanely, the centre aircraft is (or was) a Junkers Ju 52; and almost certainly it'll be a Ju 52/3m, that being the trimotor version most people think of and are familiar with - as well as the version used by the Luftwaffe in W.W.II. It's certainly a Ju52, because the tailwheel cutout is very characteristic, the fuselage has burnt out aft to the upper gunner's position (the toilet area on civil Ju52/3ms) the tail group looks exactly like it (feel free to compare with other web pictures) and the wing in the foreground is off the same aircraft, the low-slung and separate Junkers aileron's mass balance weight is just visible.
A comparison:
More here: http://www.luchtoorlog.be/ju523m_f2.htm
The other three aircraft look to me like examples of the Messerschmitt Bf 109; the undercarriage of the aircraft in the foreground, is especially characteristic, and only a few aircraft had their wings removable with the undercarriage attaching to the fuselage exactly as seen here - the 109 being the most likely of that group. Also, the straight upper fuselage longeron position when the gun covers, windscreen and canopy is removed is characteristic, and the machine in the centre background has the windscreen still fitted.
What is interesting is that the aircraft have had the engine upper cowling refitted after the engine has been removed - for what purpose I cannot imagine, but that's what makes the picture interesting. It looks a bit like an 'E' or Emil cowling, but not bumpy enough. It's not a 'G' or later, that's certain.
The lack of theatre bands on the Ju52, the unit code 'GC'(?) visible and what I presume is the Wurke Number on the fin should allow a theatre to be defined - it's not, presumably, the Mid East or Russia due to the missing colour bands.
IB4138, I'll PM you a suggestion for further details, but that exhausts my knowledge, and I don't personally deal with Luftwaffe 'Experts'; life's too interesting without them.
Cheers!
