P51 Mustang looses Canopy over City
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I've little doubt Rob Davies will co-operate fully with the German authorities
Dive bombing in a Mustang at 90 degrees? No bloody way. 45 usually, 60 if you really push it - but 90 never.
Re the canopy. An Mustang accident near Bankstown near Sydney around 1956 I think cost the pilot his life when the canopy came off and hit his head. Same problem in a Sea Fury if the canopy was left open on take off (normal procedure) and when the pilot wound the canopy forward after take off, if his hand accidently slipped off the winding handle an aerodynamic effect would cause the canopy to slam hard forward unrestricted and maybe dong the pilot on the back of his head. Killed one pilot at Nowra and damned nearly got me on one occasion.
Re the canopy. An Mustang accident near Bankstown near Sydney around 1956 I think cost the pilot his life when the canopy came off and hit his head. Same problem in a Sea Fury if the canopy was left open on take off (normal procedure) and when the pilot wound the canopy forward after take off, if his hand accidently slipped off the winding handle an aerodynamic effect would cause the canopy to slam hard forward unrestricted and maybe dong the pilot on the back of his head. Killed one pilot at Nowra and damned nearly got me on one occasion.
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Centaurus,
The history I have by Robert Grinsell on the development of the 51 says with regard to the A-36 that it was a beefed up version for the dive bombing role and retained the original Allison. He only mentions that the attack was "near 90 degrees" but due to occassional asymetric deployment of the dive brakes (hydraulic on each wing) causing an unstable dive, and at times loss of control or structual failure, the brakes were wired shut and the attack limited to 70 degrees until the necessary mods were made. I guess the brakes must have been really effective.
The history I have by Robert Grinsell on the development of the 51 says with regard to the A-36 that it was a beefed up version for the dive bombing role and retained the original Allison. He only mentions that the attack was "near 90 degrees" but due to occassional asymetric deployment of the dive brakes (hydraulic on each wing) causing an unstable dive, and at times loss of control or structual failure, the brakes were wired shut and the attack limited to 70 degrees until the necessary mods were made. I guess the brakes must have been really effective.
Brian A. I see your point, now. I did not realise it was a specially adapated version with dive brakes because certainly Mustangs I was involved with did not have dive brakes. Fascinating story all the same.
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Centaurus,
If you retain yearnings for the aircraft you may be interested in "Straight Down!" by Peter C Smith the story of the A-36. A review below. ISBN 0947554734 320 pages hardcover and readily available via internet. Have not read myself.
Peter C. Smith has assembled in this volume accounts from the designers, builders, and pilots of this little-known offshoot of the P-51 family as well as an impressive selection of photos. From the design and construction, through training stateside and deployment in the Mediterranean and China-Burma-India theaters of operation, the author's narrative links the recollections of those who made history in this machine. He also addresses the many falsehoods that have somehow become accepted as fact regarding the combat use of the A-36, and properly points out that this is the aircraft that kept the Mustang alive as an Air Corps project. Overall, Mr. Smith displays a command of the subject that puts him above many of the other writers of aviation history, and I would have rated this a five-star effort if he didn't have several mis-identified photos of P-51B Mustangs labelled as A-36 Apaches.
Blue Skies,
Brian
If you retain yearnings for the aircraft you may be interested in "Straight Down!" by Peter C Smith the story of the A-36. A review below. ISBN 0947554734 320 pages hardcover and readily available via internet. Have not read myself.
Peter C. Smith has assembled in this volume accounts from the designers, builders, and pilots of this little-known offshoot of the P-51 family as well as an impressive selection of photos. From the design and construction, through training stateside and deployment in the Mediterranean and China-Burma-India theaters of operation, the author's narrative links the recollections of those who made history in this machine. He also addresses the many falsehoods that have somehow become accepted as fact regarding the combat use of the A-36, and properly points out that this is the aircraft that kept the Mustang alive as an Air Corps project. Overall, Mr. Smith displays a command of the subject that puts him above many of the other writers of aviation history, and I would have rated this a five-star effort if he didn't have several mis-identified photos of P-51B Mustangs labelled as A-36 Apaches.
Blue Skies,
Brian
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Quote Atcham Tower:
What are they complaining about? Back in '44 around Munster it might have been 96 P-51 drop tanks ...
Not funny, not the least bit.
h_d
What are they complaining about? Back in '44 around Munster it might have been 96 P-51 drop tanks ...
Not funny, not the least bit.
h_d
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So, Red Bull, can you tell us how much experience you have to comment on the P-51 pilot's actions after losing his canopy?
I know the pilot in question well, and as a fellow display pilot I can tell you that he is one of the most experienced and professional warbird pilots in the UK. I also know that he spends a great deal of time in the winter months tuning his aircraft to an extremely high engineering standard for the summer display season.
As you have absolutely no idea why the canopy came loose and the circumstances that he found himself after it had, you are in no position to pass judgement irrespective of your experience.
Thank you for bringing our attention to the incident on the forum, but please keep your opinions to yourself until the facts are known.
I know the pilot in question well, and as a fellow display pilot I can tell you that he is one of the most experienced and professional warbird pilots in the UK. I also know that he spends a great deal of time in the winter months tuning his aircraft to an extremely high engineering standard for the summer display season.
As you have absolutely no idea why the canopy came loose and the circumstances that he found himself after it had, you are in no position to pass judgement irrespective of your experience.
Thank you for bringing our attention to the incident on the forum, but please keep your opinions to yourself until the facts are known.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Aerostar6
So, Red Bull, can you tell us how much experience you have to comment on the P-51 pilot's actions after losing his canopy?
I´m a litte surprised about the question - and by the way, it´s Flying Bull (none of the Red Bull Team - my nick is another story)
Well, I learned flying with the Royal Navy - although as a paying guest.
I have experience on fixed wings, although I´m a rotorhead at the moment.
Flying day and night, IFR, NVG, tactical low level and so on.
Just by common sense - thinking three seconds, after being sure, the aircraft is flying save at the moment - what would you do, after loosing your canopy over a city?
Have a look, where it went down to make sure, nobody is hurt?
Land relatively close to the scene, to make sure, nothing else on your plane was damaged?
Inform ATC, so that SAR won´t be scrambeld by whitnesses, who have seen pieces of an aircraft falling from the sky?
Is all that so far fetched for you?
I was involved to search for the possible downed A/C, that´s why I ask the questions!
Originally Posted by Aerostar6
I know the pilot in question well, and as a fellow display pilot I can tell you that he is one of the most experienced and professional warbird pilots in the UK. I also know that he spends a great deal of time in the winter months tuning his aircraft to an extremely high engineering standard for the summer display season.
As you have absolutely no idea why the canopy came loose and the circumstances that he found himself after it had, you are in no position to pass judgement irrespective of your experience.
As you have absolutely no idea why the canopy came loose and the circumstances that he found himself after it had, you are in no position to pass judgement irrespective of your experience.
I question his common sense and his airmanship, flying another 200 nm before landing without telling anybody (if the fault wasn´t within ATC passing information)
Originally Posted by Aerostar6
Thank you for bringing our attention to the incident on the forum, but please keep your opinions to yourself until the facts are known.
Greetings Flying Bull
Last edited by Flying Bull; 30th May 2006 at 18:26.
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This is one of those occasions when I can remind everyone that PPRuNe is a site where you can have an opinion, you don't have to keep it to yourself, because you are entitled to it equally and without fear or favour. It's called debate and what PPRuNe is for.
This forum, if no other, is not a place for egos. Just a fine place to discuss our heritage and the wonders of aviation that have gone before. Tell me that you cannot enjoy that!
This forum, if no other, is not a place for egos. Just a fine place to discuss our heritage and the wonders of aviation that have gone before. Tell me that you cannot enjoy that!
Thread Starter
Hi Folks,
short note in the local newspaper today, that the authorities said, it was bad luck, the canopy departed, because the aircraft was well maintained.
So it seems, the story ends with a happy end for the pilot.
Greetings Flying Bull
short note in the local newspaper today, that the authorities said, it was bad luck, the canopy departed, because the aircraft was well maintained.
So it seems, the story ends with a happy end for the pilot.
Greetings Flying Bull
Thread Starter
Hi Inbalance,
Well, it all depends on how you shout into the wood, how it sounds back out of it ;-)
I had some experiance with the Münster authorities as well - nobody likes to be controlled - but as long, as you stick to the rules - it´s just a pain to be controlled, not a problem.
Nevertheless, there is still no comment from the "close friends of the pilot" or himself, whether there was a radiocall and to whom, to state, who lost the canopy and that there is no danger to the aircraft.
I personally doubt, that such a professional call was made.
Greetings Flying Bull
Originally Posted by inbalance
Anyone who knows the local authorities at muenster, knows that it was a good idea not to land and continue to Berlin.
Just my 50 cent.
Just my 50 cent.
I had some experiance with the Münster authorities as well - nobody likes to be controlled - but as long, as you stick to the rules - it´s just a pain to be controlled, not a problem.
Nevertheless, there is still no comment from the "close friends of the pilot" or himself, whether there was a radiocall and to whom, to state, who lost the canopy and that there is no danger to the aircraft.
I personally doubt, that such a professional call was made.
Greetings Flying Bull
