Wreckage in Bristol Channel

[Flap40]

Originally Posted by JamesA

I also recall square and rounded tips on Dart engines, don't know which variant used which or if they are interchangeable. Over to the prop experts.

With Air Anglia/Air UK F27-100 had round tips and the 200's, 500's & 600's had square tips. I think that they were Dart -517's -528's and -532's.

Electra's are another type that has square and round.

[JamesA]

Prop tips

Many thanks to MReyn24050 and Flaps40, for your prompt replies.
Well, Conan, it seems you pay your money and take your choice.
I used to work on Britannias and Darts, but do not know the criteria for prop choice.

This historical section is nice and friendly, as well as helpful. So much more pleasant than the Childrens' toys and prams department[sorry, freight dog branch (have to admit I belong to them)].

Hope to learn a lot more.
James

[MReyn24050]

JamesA
You are welcome, I am sure the 'freight dog branch' are not that bad. I thought that the difference between square tips and rounded tips had something to do with propeller tip speeds and sonic limits but to have both on the same wing for me cast doubts on that theory. Perhaps the relationship is something to do with the reduction of vibration.
Mel

[jabberwok]

Originally Posted by JamesA
I also recall square and rounded tips on Dart engines, don't know which variant used which or if they are interchangeable. Over to the prop experts.

Some Viscount 700's had rounded tips and the 800's had squared ones. No idea why though.

[scroogee]

Further info about prop tip shape, the Convair 580 uses Allison 501 D13 engines and Aeroproducts A6441FN-606A props- which are a stainless steel honey comb construction. I would think that the honey combing would mean that square tips are required for construction purposes.

Whereas the Convair 5800 uses Allison 501 D22 engines and has Hamilton Standard props which are soild aluminium and have rounded tips. (The D22 is also the engine used in C130's and P3 Orions.)

[matspart3]

A little more info and a picture here

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=55992

[My Dad's Little Boy]

Originally Posted by MReyn24050

Yes, sadly, Bristol 175 Britannia G-ANCA was lost on the 6th November 1957 with 15 men on board. The aircraft had just completed a test flight of 1 hour and 40 minutes. Tests included a strain-gauge measurements on the non-standard propeller of the no. 2 engine, and high speed upset manoeuvre recovery tests in connection with the US certification. Returning to Filton, the aircraft entered a circuit and partial gear extensions occurred for unknown reasons. Attempts may have been made to complete undercarriage free fall tests as these had failed the previous day; such test were not on the programme however. At 1500 feet a left turn to base leg was initiated. The right wing suddenly dropped and the aircraft went into a very steeply banked right hand turn. The Britannia briefly recovered but banked steeply again and struck the ground in a wood near Downend Village.
The names of the 15 men who lost their lives that day were :
John Kenneth Barker
John Edward Burton
Donald Charles Cameron
Albert Edward Ebling
Philip Norman Edward Hewitt
Donald Matthew Hunter
Kenneth Graham Lucas
Dudley Neville Stephen Moynihan
Frederick William Mycroft
John Harold Parry-Jones
Ernest Hugh Statham
Nigel Morris Thorne
William James Todd
Bernard Francis Waite
Frederick Charles Walsh

There's an engraved metal plaque on the wall of the Downend Folk Centre commemorating (if that's the right word to use) the crash. The wood where it went down is just over the road from the plaque.

[On-MarkBob]

Prop tips

Nothing to do with the Prop in the Bristol Channel but the 'Q' tips (apart from being something to rake your ears out with), were designed to cut down prop noise. 'Q' meaning Quiet. The idea was that at certain speeds the prop tips would become super-sonic and make hell of a din. By curling the tips the diameter was reduced and the speed of the tip was brought back into the sub-sonic band. (theoretically without degrading the performance of the prop). The GoodYear airship is a prime example!

[rewill]

prop blade bristol channel

Originally Posted by Agaricus bisporus

In the mid '80s I regularly flew in the Bristol area and frequently saw a large propellor blade sticking out of a big sandbank in mid-channel roughly between Portishead (or a mile or so upstream) and the Welsh shore to the North. We once came to a hover close by, it was a big square-ended paddle blade similar shape to that on a Herc/Convair or some of the later RAF piston transports and was clealy still attached to an engine.

Long shot I know, anyone able to shed light?

mosquito plane went down early to mid 50s plane broke up over short period of time,have walked out to engine on welsh side,paddle shape prop,packard engine,not rolls royce,found out other engine near burnham on sea, pilot found dead near barry, have more info email rewill@hotmail,co,uk

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

I've seen Q tips in Texas, but only the one time. It was on a twin I think. I heard the principle was the same as "tip sails/winglets/ugly sticky up bits at the end of the wings", whatever they're called now.


I think one reason they didn't catch on is that they look like you did a go-around after a wheels up landing.

[Stubenfliege 2]

Originally Posted by MReyn24050

The right wing suddenly dropped and the aircraft went into a very steeply banked right hand turn. The Britannia briefly recovered but banked steeply again and struck the ground in a wood near Downend Village.
The names of the 15 men who lost their lives that day were :

Any idea, what reason can be named for this controll loss?

Regards,

Christian

[MReyn24050]

Stubenfliege 2

Christian
The following is a report based on ICAO Accident Digest Circular 62-AN/57 (19-22)

PROBABLE CAUSE: "The accident was the result of the aircraft developing a very steep descending turn to the right which the pilot was unable to control. The reason for this could not be determined, but the possibility that it occurred as the result of malfunctioning of the autopilot cannot be dismissed."

Mel

[atb1943]

I've seen Q tips in Texas, but only the one time. It was on a twin I think. I heard the principle was the same as "tip sails/winglets/ugly sticky up bits at the end of the wings", whatever they're called now......


I recall seeing an all-red Navajo at Kidlington with q tip props..believe the owner has two of them. Could it be a Colemill conversion?

Believe one of them also took part in the 1981 Paris-NY air race.

cheers atb

[treadigraph]

I remember the Red Navajo - it was US registered and had been on the G-reg previously. It was a Panther Navajo which I think was indeed converted by Colemill. Four blade props as I recall. I also remember a rather smart light grey one, also US registered, that used to be quite common in me spotting days - cor, several decades ago now! I presume they weren't certified for UK registration by the CAA?

[atb1943]

There was a rumour that the Navajo participating in the race from Le Bourget in 1981 was going to be kitted out with in-flight refuelling (!) which caused one or two others to drop out. How true that rumour was I don't know. The hit was the participation of a Dragon Rapide in the race (Blue Way?), I believe now F-AZCA in the Jean Salis collection.
The red Navajo incidentally may have been replaced by a Caravan based in bonny Ecosse.

But this thread is about props in the mud, so I am way off track!
cheers
atb