Glider Snatch Launch
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Glider Snatch Launch
Saw the last bit of a film this afternoon circa 1945, B/W. At the end the Americans got some of their troops out of the jungle using a C-47 to 'Snatch Launch' a glider!!
The troops boarded said glider which had it's tow line laid out and the (loop)end held up by two poles. The C-47 then flew in with a very large pole & hook arrangement slung from the underside of the fuselage, hooked the loop and flew off into the sunset towing said glider behind it!
According to the credits at the end of the film, this took place in Burma during the battle to liberate Burma from the Japanese.
Does anybody know if this type of glider launch is possible? Or is it just film makers license to make the film more interesting to the audience?
Perhaps some of our Elders on PPRuNe have first hand knowledge of this?
CC
The troops boarded said glider which had it's tow line laid out and the (loop)end held up by two poles. The C-47 then flew in with a very large pole & hook arrangement slung from the underside of the fuselage, hooked the loop and flew off into the sunset towing said glider behind it!
According to the credits at the end of the film, this took place in Burma during the battle to liberate Burma from the Japanese.
Does anybody know if this type of glider launch is possible? Or is it just film makers license to make the film more interesting to the audience?
Perhaps some of our Elders on PPRuNe have first hand knowledge of this?
CC
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CC,
Such an operation happened. Both in Burma and for medical evacuations in Europe.
Recommeded reading: "Silent Wings at War," by John Lowden, an excellent accounting of the combat glider program.
The British glider program was is particularly noteworthy and filled with brave folks. Pegasus Bridge being, probably, the most famous exploit.
I did a magazine story on a US glider pilot (Flight Journal, Jan 05). This guy flew a Brit Horsa into D-Day, then Wacos for two other ops. Non-combat flying included the medical evac of wounded via the method you asked about.
Took guts!
(edited to correct book title and add author's name.)
Such an operation happened. Both in Burma and for medical evacuations in Europe.
Recommeded reading: "Silent Wings at War," by John Lowden, an excellent accounting of the combat glider program.
The British glider program was is particularly noteworthy and filled with brave folks. Pegasus Bridge being, probably, the most famous exploit.
I did a magazine story on a US glider pilot (Flight Journal, Jan 05). This guy flew a Brit Horsa into D-Day, then Wacos for two other ops. Non-combat flying included the medical evac of wounded via the method you asked about.
Took guts!
(edited to correct book title and add author's name.)
Last edited by brickhistory; 19th Feb 2006 at 17:28.
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Some Tug pilots I can think off still practice this technique today---albeit from ground level !
However, I would be interested to learn about what sort of weak link was in place ( if any ) and the projected take off run for the Horsa--which must have been fairly lengthy I assume as it would be a heavy beast to get airborne in a hurry. The loading on the structure must have been decidely high as well at the moment of snatch--all credit to the guys involved though.
However, I would be interested to learn about what sort of weak link was in place ( if any ) and the projected take off run for the Horsa--which must have been fairly lengthy I assume as it would be a heavy beast to get airborne in a hurry. The loading on the structure must have been decidely high as well at the moment of snatch--all credit to the guys involved though.
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Don't know that the Horsa did this technique. Much bigger, heavier a/c than the Waco. Also, the Horsa's attachments were on the wings vs the Waco's single point on the top on the nose.
From the glider pilot I interviewed (speaking about a 'normal tow from take-off' in the Waco), you waited until the tow a/c raised his tail wheel off, then eased up above his tail. Not too sharply or you'd dump the tug on his nose. After reaching altitude, you dropped down to about six feet under his tail (meaning six feet under his line of flight, not a literal six feet from his tail). That spot offered the best way to avoid being tossed around from propwash.
From the glider pilot I interviewed (speaking about a 'normal tow from take-off' in the Waco), you waited until the tow a/c raised his tail wheel off, then eased up above his tail. Not too sharply or you'd dump the tug on his nose. After reaching altitude, you dropped down to about six feet under his tail (meaning six feet under his line of flight, not a literal six feet from his tail). That spot offered the best way to avoid being tossed around from propwash.
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A similar system was developed to extract agents from German occupied territory and later to rescue downed pilots in Korea. Successful, but a bu**er if you were on the receiving end! However, it must have been preferrable to the alternative - captivity in a N Korean/Chinese POW camp...
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There's a WW2 C47A (N5831B) which was imported into the UK last year that is still partially equipped for a glider snatch recovery.
Search on Fulton recovery system - developed in the 50s and 60s to recover downed aircrew via a snatch technique.
Search on Fulton recovery system - developed in the 50s and 60s to recover downed aircrew via a snatch technique.
Snatch Mail
Some boyhood book on the then marvels of technology showed the same technique for air mail pickups from small towns. The outgoing mail pod would be winched in and the incoming mail would be chucked out in a replacement pod.
All done with early '50s tailwheel light a/c.
All done with early '50s tailwheel light a/c.
I was due to talk to my old school headmaster about his RAF days in WWII, and part of it was to talk about these ops. Unfortunately he passed away before we could meet again to talk about it. RIP D Tilby.
Gentleman Aviator
You may find info or further links on the excellent Assault Glider Trust website.
There is also a video about Brit Mil gliders called "Silently to War" or something like that, which has footage of (amongst other things) snatch take-offs. The "whiplash" must have been quite something...
There is also a video about Brit Mil gliders called "Silently to War" or something like that, which has footage of (amongst other things) snatch take-offs. The "whiplash" must have been quite something...
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Farnborough August 1950.
RAF air display (not SBAC that was the following month)
Standard combined ops type airfield assault. Waco Hadrian glider lands, troops take up positions. Finger four of Vampires fly very low up R/W 07, pull up and wingover left back down parallel with R/W 25 in long line astern. All four fire a full load of 3inch RP’s into the objective near the copse on the N side of 25. I can see the smoke and flames and hear the roar from them even now. They must have done some good though because the troops ran to the target and then returned, got back in their glider, which was then snatched back into the air by a passing DC3.
Five years earlier of course people only worried about whose side any aeroplanes belonged to, not what they were doing.
It is interesting to see how today people think such events were hairy - or even the product of an over excited film producers imagination. Shows how the world has changed.
Control forces of course are caused by airspeed and are not affected by a yank on the nose or tail by a rope.
RAF air display (not SBAC that was the following month)
Standard combined ops type airfield assault. Waco Hadrian glider lands, troops take up positions. Finger four of Vampires fly very low up R/W 07, pull up and wingover left back down parallel with R/W 25 in long line astern. All four fire a full load of 3inch RP’s into the objective near the copse on the N side of 25. I can see the smoke and flames and hear the roar from them even now. They must have done some good though because the troops ran to the target and then returned, got back in their glider, which was then snatched back into the air by a passing DC3.
Five years earlier of course people only worried about whose side any aeroplanes belonged to, not what they were doing.
It is interesting to see how today people think such events were hairy - or even the product of an over excited film producers imagination. Shows how the world has changed.
Control forces of course are caused by airspeed and are not affected by a yank on the nose or tail by a rope.
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A similar system was developed to extract agents from German occupied territory and later to rescue downed pilots in Korea.
In the 1970's I recall seeing a C130 with a huge pair of "scissors" on the nose - and being told this was for aerial recovery of personnel.
Vague comments I know but so is my memory these days.
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The Rescue herc was used quit a lot, also for missile/drone recovery.
UK had its own proposals like wing mounted pods for carrying Special Forces attached to Harrier wings! 1 pod = 1 man
UK had its own proposals like wing mounted pods for carrying Special Forces attached to Harrier wings! 1 pod = 1 man
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Glider pick up
I've got a 1949 (amended up to 1952) copy of AP 129, Royal Air Force Pilots Flying Manual which describes (with illustrations) the Glider Pick-up recovery System.
I can get the pages scanned into a folder. If someone can tell me in very simple terms how to get them onto here I'll cheerfully have a go at doing it.
(There's also some good stuff on glider and target towing, how to fly in formation and accomplishment of carrier deck landings.
At the back of the book are 50 odd photos of RAF aircraft, current or just coming into service)
I can get the pages scanned into a folder. If someone can tell me in very simple terms how to get them onto here I'll cheerfully have a go at doing it.
(There's also some good stuff on glider and target towing, how to fly in formation and accomplishment of carrier deck landings.
At the back of the book are 50 odd photos of RAF aircraft, current or just coming into service)
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Originally Posted by jabberwok
Devised by a doctor at Farnborough who's name I regretfully forget. There is footage somewhere showing him being yanked skyward by a passing Lysander. Early war years I think.
As a non-scientist and non-pilot, the critical bit seems to be to be how much elasticity in the tow-rope section. Too much and you could whang the glider up the tug's rear, or oscillate across the sky like a caterpillar's 'inching along' manoeuvre! Too little elasticity and any jerk would potentially snap the rope/hook.
I'm sure the physics I'm proposing is more 'Catch the Pigeon' than real world...
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It might be in one of two sources that I recall.
'Farnborough - The Story of the RAE'
by Turhill & Reed
Published by ?, 1980 ISBN: ?
or
'Early Aviation At Farnborough: The History Of The Royal Aircraft Establishment' by Percy Brooksbank Walker
Published by ?, 1996 ISBN: 0 35603 520 4
The doctor's name may have been Haycock or Laycock..
'Farnborough - The Story of the RAE'
by Turhill & Reed
Published by ?, 1980 ISBN: ?
or
'Early Aviation At Farnborough: The History Of The Royal Aircraft Establishment' by Percy Brooksbank Walker
Published by ?, 1996 ISBN: 0 35603 520 4
The doctor's name may have been Haycock or Laycock..
Gentleman Aviator
Didn't the Herc also snatch 007 and some floozie out of a dinghy in one of the films, after he's let off a balloon with the cable attached......?
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Teeteringhead, 007 + certainly recovered that way in one of the Connery films (Thunderball?) - but was it a B-17 rather than a Herc? (Just when you want a Bond season, suddenly there isn't one!)
Remember watching an HC-130 demonstrating the system at Miildenhall - 1979? They also dropped a Ford Anglia several thousand feet from a HH-53!
Remember watching an HC-130 demonstrating the system at Miildenhall - 1979? They also dropped a Ford Anglia several thousand feet from a HH-53!