Javelin!
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Javelin!
Just wondering if anybody has anything nice, or otherwise, to say about the Javelin? Tales and anecdotes, apocryphal or not, would be most welcome.
Conan
Conan
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Think that was the elevators that departed due to flutter wasn't it? I also heard that there was a mid air with a Hunter near Wooton under Edge in 56 I think. don't know if all got away with it.
Conan
Conan
Shortly after the 'Did you fly the Vulcan?' thread opened on Mil Aircrew, someone started a thread there on the Javelin. It didn't get a huge number of replies, but it might have some interesting things there, if you can find it.
I would provide a helpful link, but the search function refuses to believe that anything existed before late 2005 whenever I use - others seem to have more success, though...
Edit: A bit of lateral thinking and computer jiggery pokery later.....
Try here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hlight=Javelin
I would provide a helpful link, but the search function refuses to believe that anything existed before late 2005 whenever I use - others seem to have more success, though...
Edit: A bit of lateral thinking and computer jiggery pokery later.....
Try here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hlight=Javelin
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Archimedes, you are a gentleman. I did search for "Javelin" before starting this thread, but found little, so here we are I suppose. I will pootle off and have a look at your link now.
If anybody has any memories of the Dragmaster, or wants to make a contribution, then please go ahead.
Conan
LATE NEWS Since this post, the original Javelin thread has miraculously reappeared in the Mil forum. Suggest you add anything there as it is a much more setablished thread.
If anybody has any memories of the Dragmaster, or wants to make a contribution, then please go ahead.
Conan
LATE NEWS Since this post, the original Javelin thread has miraculously reappeared in the Mil forum. Suggest you add anything there as it is a much more setablished thread.
Last edited by Conan the Librarian; 9th Feb 2006 at 13:25.
Weren't javelins deployed to Kenya in the '60's when Rhodesia declared UDI? Must have been their last operational role; shortly after there were several parked at Halton for apprenti to play with.
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When I was a Staff Cadet on 12 AEF in the late 70s the Boss, S/L JR "Jock" Ritchie AFC, was ex Javelins and he used to tell some great stories.
The one that sticks in the mind was when operating out of Tengah in the 60s during the confrontation in Borneo.
Went along the lines of not being allowed to use live weapons so resorted to lighting the 'burners at low level, the noise sounding like bombs were being dropped and at least hopefully scaring those on the ground.
PPRuNe Radar was there and heard most of the stories as well, he might remember a bit better than me.
WF.
The one that sticks in the mind was when operating out of Tengah in the 60s during the confrontation in Borneo.
Went along the lines of not being allowed to use live weapons so resorted to lighting the 'burners at low level, the noise sounding like bombs were being dropped and at least hopefully scaring those on the ground.
PPRuNe Radar was there and heard most of the stories as well, he might remember a bit better than me.
WF.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Worked with a Sqn Ldr Bob Bonas, an ex Javelin nav. He had two favourite stories.
First was "Operation sweet Relief". They had just started tanking and a trial was required to develop a means of the crew being able to reieve themselves on long trips. Somebody came up with the idea of a sheath with a tube running to a bag in the leg pocket of the flying suit and it was deemed that a couple of hot water bottles would do. Off toddle Bob and pilot down to boots and they buy a couple of kiddies bottles, Capt Pugwash or some such.
They then proceed to fly several trips. Problem, they have such well trained bladders they couldn't go. Eventually, it was decided that the situation had to be forced and they sat drinking copious amounts of coffee until they were full. They then slushed their way out to the jet and got airborne.
At last Bob had success and felt water start to flow. Unfortunately the tube had come out of his hot water bottle and gone down his flying boot and he quickly felt a warm fuzzy feeling. And once you start you can't stop, and he had drunk rather a lot of coffee....
The walk back to the sqn was described as a sort of step, slurp, squish, step, slurp, squish.....
The second was concerning the layout of the control runs. Apparently, the nav could reach down the side of the cockpit and grab the control runs on their way to the rear of the aircraft. It was not unknown for a nav, on a boring trip, to give them a quick jerk. "Did you feel that?" the pilot would ask. "No, what?" The nav would answer, before doing it again a few minutes later. Leading to the pilot eventually recovering to report a control restriction.
I always wondered how many techie hours were spent investigating javelin control restrictions so that navs could get back on the ground a bit sooner.
It was also, IIRC, known as the dragmaster. Constant speed, variable noise.
First was "Operation sweet Relief". They had just started tanking and a trial was required to develop a means of the crew being able to reieve themselves on long trips. Somebody came up with the idea of a sheath with a tube running to a bag in the leg pocket of the flying suit and it was deemed that a couple of hot water bottles would do. Off toddle Bob and pilot down to boots and they buy a couple of kiddies bottles, Capt Pugwash or some such.
They then proceed to fly several trips. Problem, they have such well trained bladders they couldn't go. Eventually, it was decided that the situation had to be forced and they sat drinking copious amounts of coffee until they were full. They then slushed their way out to the jet and got airborne.
At last Bob had success and felt water start to flow. Unfortunately the tube had come out of his hot water bottle and gone down his flying boot and he quickly felt a warm fuzzy feeling. And once you start you can't stop, and he had drunk rather a lot of coffee....
The walk back to the sqn was described as a sort of step, slurp, squish, step, slurp, squish.....
The second was concerning the layout of the control runs. Apparently, the nav could reach down the side of the cockpit and grab the control runs on their way to the rear of the aircraft. It was not unknown for a nav, on a boring trip, to give them a quick jerk. "Did you feel that?" the pilot would ask. "No, what?" The nav would answer, before doing it again a few minutes later. Leading to the pilot eventually recovering to report a control restriction.
I always wondered how many techie hours were spent investigating javelin control restrictions so that navs could get back on the ground a bit sooner.
It was also, IIRC, known as the dragmaster. Constant speed, variable noise.
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Orac: I believe the nav had to undo a panel on the side of the cockpit to gain access to the control rods.
What followed depended on how adventuresome he felt.
It was a little like the Venom3 where the power/manual control for the ailerons was between the two seats.
If the nav got fed up with aeros you would suddenly find yourself in manual halfway round a roll, with the stick damn near solid.
What followed depended on how adventuresome he felt.
It was a little like the Venom3 where the power/manual control for the ailerons was between the two seats.
If the nav got fed up with aeros you would suddenly find yourself in manual halfway round a roll, with the stick damn near solid.
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jAVELIN
33 squadron did a detachment to Cyprus in the early 60s. On the night before departure back to the UK there was surreptitious activity around one aircraft when a drop-tank was lowered and the space inside the fairing around the tank was filled with all kinds of goodies and alchohol. The tank was returned to the aircraft and all went well until the aircraft arrived, I think, at Orange, in France. When the landing gear was to be lowered there was a problem and the decision was made to fly to a desolate area and the drop-tanks were jettisoned. Some-how, no-one from the squadron was interested in going to the drop site1
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Warped Factor
Those were the days .... wish I could remember half the stories we were told by one of the most unassuming pilots (but definitely the most brilliant hands on flyer) I have ever known.
The stories I remember were of him being able to bounce and camera gun every NATO fighter/bomber in sight during his days on the Jav, all except the Buccaneer. All he could ever get in his gunsight of them was the top of the tail. If he depressed the nose any lower, then he'd hit the ground.
He also flew in the Paris airshow, and had to land without nose gear in Borneo (I think), or maybe he did that at Paris .... the stories all run in to one after so long.
I never did find out what he got the AFC for .... but he was a fantastic role model and as one of his 'urchins', I am sure he is up there and proud of what we all achieved. (Even if 3 of us ended up in ATC
)
His spirit and esprit de corps lives on in another cut from the same cloth ..... Wholigan
Fare thee well .... Bravo 25 ... the Boss
Those were the days .... wish I could remember half the stories we were told by one of the most unassuming pilots (but definitely the most brilliant hands on flyer) I have ever known.
The stories I remember were of him being able to bounce and camera gun every NATO fighter/bomber in sight during his days on the Jav, all except the Buccaneer. All he could ever get in his gunsight of them was the top of the tail. If he depressed the nose any lower, then he'd hit the ground.
He also flew in the Paris airshow, and had to land without nose gear in Borneo (I think), or maybe he did that at Paris
.... the stories all run in to one after so long. I never did find out what he got the AFC for .... but he was a fantastic role model and as one of his 'urchins', I am sure he is up there and proud of what we all achieved. (Even if 3 of us ended up in ATC
)His spirit and esprit de corps lives on in another cut from the same cloth ..... Wholigan
Fare thee well .... Bravo 25 ... the Boss
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Bob also told a story of the javelin Sqn in Malta. The wine/brandy in malta was dire (marsovan?, Chisk Blue label? It´s a long time ago). So they had a couple of wing tanks scoured out and used to fly it to Cyprus, get them filled and fly it home. The aircraft would get to Cyprus OK, but the prevailing headwinds made getting home a bit iffy on internal fuel, so they´d wait till the met forecast said calm air or a tailwind before departing.
As the story went, everything was fine till the met man got it wrong and the crew didn´t realise till past the point of no return and ran out of fuel about 40nm short of Luqa. Crew declared a double engine failure, cause unknown, ejected, and were picked up safely. Not sure what happened to the met man..
As the story went, everything was fine till the met man got it wrong and the crew didn´t realise till past the point of no return and ran out of fuel about 40nm short of Luqa. Crew declared a double engine failure, cause unknown, ejected, and were picked up safely. Not sure what happened to the met man..
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Hmm, if they'd just decanted the fuel into bottles and quaffed that, it would probably taste better than Cypriot brandy. Alternatively put the Keo stuff in the tanks and you'd probably have the first supersonic Javelin.
Remember the first bunch of Harriers to visit Cyprus. One diverted into a French base on the way home with aileron restrictions. Cause was a few cartons of, by then, mangled and bent ciggies.
Remember the first bunch of Harriers to visit Cyprus. One diverted into a French base on the way home with aileron restrictions. Cause was a few cartons of, by then, mangled and bent ciggies.
Plastic PPRuNer
ORAC, it was (is?) Marsovin - you're right, the cheap stuff was awful, quite the most headache inducing wine I've ever had - we used to joke about the one grape that went into every 1000 gallons!
Cisk was the beer - not bad.
PS: The brandy was OK
Cisk was the beer - not bad.
PS: The brandy was OK
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Ah! - the delights of The Gut. A bottle of Cisk was known as a Bluey the other beer being something like "Hopleaf" and known as a Hoppy. A mate once asked me to bring some Marsovin back from a Luqa detachment for him. The Customs Oficer at Lyneham asked me if it was for my own consumption and not to be caught out I said "Of course!" He replied that it should be marked "For external use only" He was absoutely right - which is why we called it 'Screech" and only drank it on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, mixed 50-50 with lemonade.
Blacksheep
Yes, the 'joys' of screech. We had a flight engineer who was 'addicted' to screech and used to head to his favourite watering hole in 'the Gut' as soon as possible after arrival. I recall waking up one morning to find him asleep on his knees, resting his head on the bed!! One of screech's qualities was it's anaesthetic effect - at least for a little while!
Apologies for the continuing thread creep, but have had some vivid flashbacks of 'the Gut', the Gyppo Queen and (famously) the Sparrow - also, surprisingly, the tea rooms under the Opera House with their Edwardian style 'hostesses'.
Nostalgia rocks!!
Yes, the 'joys' of screech. We had a flight engineer who was 'addicted' to screech and used to head to his favourite watering hole in 'the Gut' as soon as possible after arrival. I recall waking up one morning to find him asleep on his knees, resting his head on the bed!! One of screech's qualities was it's anaesthetic effect - at least for a little while!
Apologies for the continuing thread creep, but have had some vivid flashbacks of 'the Gut', the Gyppo Queen and (famously) the Sparrow - also, surprisingly, the tea rooms under the Opera House with their Edwardian style 'hostesses'.
Nostalgia rocks!!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
IIRC there was an occasion in Cyprus when an Italian Gina (G91) arrived for the weekend and, for some reason, came to grief off the side of the runway on departure. Crew were OK and, next day, departed for home via Larnaca.
The airframe was left where it was awaiting the, presumed, Italian, BOI and salvage crew. When nothing had been heard after a few days, a message was sent to their base asking for disposal instructions for airframe XXXX. This evoked a dead pan reply from the Italians that there must be a mistake, that aircraft had been struck off charge and scrapped about a year previously.
It, reportedly, transpired that the base had, instead of using it as a gate guard or scrapping it had kept it as an unofficlal hack, fudging fuel figures on other sorties to fuel it, and drew lots to see who got to use it at the weekends. All going smoothly till said incident. The airframe was subsequently removed to the fire dump and nothing more heard from the Italians....
The airframe was left where it was awaiting the, presumed, Italian, BOI and salvage crew. When nothing had been heard after a few days, a message was sent to their base asking for disposal instructions for airframe XXXX. This evoked a dead pan reply from the Italians that there must be a mistake, that aircraft had been struck off charge and scrapped about a year previously.
It, reportedly, transpired that the base had, instead of using it as a gate guard or scrapping it had kept it as an unofficlal hack, fudging fuel figures on other sorties to fuel it, and drew lots to see who got to use it at the weekends. All going smoothly till said incident. The airframe was subsequently removed to the fire dump and nothing more heard from the Italians....
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Aaah, more nostalgia.
They were often used by I.Fitt.NI Apprenti to do autopilot checks and we E.Fitt.A Apprenti were forever changing inverters for them. T'were amazing some of the places where Glosters managed to hide the electrical bits, I'm sure glad I went to Vulcans where you could at least see the bits you were working on instead of doing it all by feel.
They were often used by I.Fitt.NI Apprenti to do autopilot checks and we E.Fitt.A Apprenti were forever changing inverters for them. T'were amazing some of the places where Glosters managed to hide the electrical bits, I'm sure glad I went to Vulcans where you could at least see the bits you were working on instead of doing it all by feel.