RAF Urban Myth
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RAF Urban Myth
Hello all, I've been directed here by members of another site (won't name names as it's rude) that I'm a member of as they said that I would probably get an answer from the members of this site.
So here goes...................
I have heard an urban myth that says 84 Sqn is never to be seen in the UK.
This was after an order by George VI who said that during WW II, the aircrew element of the Sqn (or some of it) flew away during an attack and left the ground crew to be captured.
I have heard this 'myth' various times but with 2 different places, Malta and the Far East.
Looking at the history of this Sqn there might be some merit to parts of the story;
1. The Sqn served in both areas
2. The Sqn has never served in the UK
3. THe Sqn was in the Far East when Japanese forces captured Singapore, and other bases (I think, and please correct if wrong) where some aircrew were berated for leaving the scene, but later cleared as they protected
the airframes from falling into the Japanese hands.
Does anyone else know of this story, or can someone else add to it or dispel it?
Thanks in advance.
So here goes...................
I have heard an urban myth that says 84 Sqn is never to be seen in the UK.
This was after an order by George VI who said that during WW II, the aircrew element of the Sqn (or some of it) flew away during an attack and left the ground crew to be captured.
I have heard this 'myth' various times but with 2 different places, Malta and the Far East.
Looking at the history of this Sqn there might be some merit to parts of the story;
1. The Sqn served in both areas
2. The Sqn has never served in the UK
3. THe Sqn was in the Far East when Japanese forces captured Singapore, and other bases (I think, and please correct if wrong) where some aircrew were berated for leaving the scene, but later cleared as they protected
the airframes from falling into the Japanese hands.
Does anyone else know of this story, or can someone else add to it or dispel it?
Thanks in advance.
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I think this story is linked to a number of squadrons that were in the same predicament. 33 Sqn celebrate Crete day each year, the aircrew used to buy the groundcrew beer, after they left the groundcrew at Malame to defend themselves whilst the aircrew flew to safer places. Also I believe 28 did something similar.
Last edited by WASALOADIE; 17th Jan 2006 at 18:19. Reason: spelling
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You have caused me to dig out a floppy disk of the 84 Sqn magazine articles that I used to write (in WordPerfect v5.1)
SCORPION STING Jun 94
"There have been many changes in personnel during the past year...." So begins the 84 Sqn Magazine foreword of Xmas 1943. It was hardly surprising that the Sqn Commanding Officer was welcoming new members because the aircrew had just left all the groundcrew to be overrun by the Japanese. ("So what's the problem?" says the current Sqn Boss) Indeed, during the war, the glorious 84th spent alot of time 'evacuating enemy territory' and leaving considerable numbers of personnel behind in the chaos.
Those days of mayhem are thankfully over and the Scorps are well known for the sort of calm professionalism that can only be demonstrated by someone who knows that it won't be long before he is back down the beach with a cool beer.
But wait a minute, let us turn back the most recent pages of Sqn history, and sure enough, we only have to look back to the last two major operations to find the trend continuing.
On 'Operation Befriend', we made worldwide headlines by lifting some Palestinians out of no-man's land in the Bekk'a Valley, but what happened to the groundcrew? That's right, they were left behind in Haifa and felt very silly hitching a lift back on a Louis line ferry dressed in DP's with no money for beer.
On 'Operation Lacrimoso', when the Sqn were putting out forest fires in the Lebanon, the groundcrew were even more grateful to be left behind in Beirut while the aircrew hurried home for tea and medals. Just ask 34 Sqn how many times they've been left in the bondhu on a scorching hot day waiting for a lift that never came.
The reason for the history lesson is that we were privileged to meet the members of the 84 Squadron Association who came to Cyprus on their holidays in late April/early May. We were also delighted to discover that they are an equally deranged bunch of party animals who never know when to stop. God did warn one of them to slow down a bit though, at Chris kebab when he hit one of the association with an angina attack shortly after a drunken rendition of the 'Shaibah Blues'. How we laughed.
It was a fairly humbling experience listening to the real war stories. "There I was, 40 thousand feet, nothing on the gauge but the maker's name...on the way there I flew so low I had to stand on the seat to see over the waves...if I'm not back in time for breakfast, Ginge can have my eggs..." and that was just the Sqn storeman. One of the groundcrew old-timers, Ivor Brent, told us that during the war in the Far East they used to drink anti-freeze for kicks, so hoovering Kokkinelli at Chris Kebab wasn't such a chore.
SCORPION STING Jun 94
"There have been many changes in personnel during the past year...." So begins the 84 Sqn Magazine foreword of Xmas 1943. It was hardly surprising that the Sqn Commanding Officer was welcoming new members because the aircrew had just left all the groundcrew to be overrun by the Japanese. ("So what's the problem?" says the current Sqn Boss) Indeed, during the war, the glorious 84th spent alot of time 'evacuating enemy territory' and leaving considerable numbers of personnel behind in the chaos.
Those days of mayhem are thankfully over and the Scorps are well known for the sort of calm professionalism that can only be demonstrated by someone who knows that it won't be long before he is back down the beach with a cool beer.
But wait a minute, let us turn back the most recent pages of Sqn history, and sure enough, we only have to look back to the last two major operations to find the trend continuing.
On 'Operation Befriend', we made worldwide headlines by lifting some Palestinians out of no-man's land in the Bekk'a Valley, but what happened to the groundcrew? That's right, they were left behind in Haifa and felt very silly hitching a lift back on a Louis line ferry dressed in DP's with no money for beer.
On 'Operation Lacrimoso', when the Sqn were putting out forest fires in the Lebanon, the groundcrew were even more grateful to be left behind in Beirut while the aircrew hurried home for tea and medals. Just ask 34 Sqn how many times they've been left in the bondhu on a scorching hot day waiting for a lift that never came.
The reason for the history lesson is that we were privileged to meet the members of the 84 Squadron Association who came to Cyprus on their holidays in late April/early May. We were also delighted to discover that they are an equally deranged bunch of party animals who never know when to stop. God did warn one of them to slow down a bit though, at Chris kebab when he hit one of the association with an angina attack shortly after a drunken rendition of the 'Shaibah Blues'. How we laughed.
It was a fairly humbling experience listening to the real war stories. "There I was, 40 thousand feet, nothing on the gauge but the maker's name...on the way there I flew so low I had to stand on the seat to see over the waves...if I'm not back in time for breakfast, Ginge can have my eggs..." and that was just the Sqn storeman. One of the groundcrew old-timers, Ivor Brent, told us that during the war in the Far East they used to drink anti-freeze for kicks, so hoovering Kokkinelli at Chris Kebab wasn't such a chore.
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I believe this story refers to 28 Sqn. I was told that the punishment for their misdemenour was to never again be based in England's green and pleasant land - and the sqn's history of overseas postings seems to support that.
As punishments go, back to back overseas postings, seems pretty desirable to me (give me Singapore, Aden, Honkers and Bahrain for starters). Of course, when the MoD very kindly shut down all the overseas RAF airfields (with the exception of Cyprus and FI, neither of which need more helos), 28 were forced back to the UK.
Maybe their bad karma continues, thanks to the fact that 28 is the most bantered sqn in the Support Helo force, and probably, in the RAF in general.
As punishments go, back to back overseas postings, seems pretty desirable to me (give me Singapore, Aden, Honkers and Bahrain for starters). Of course, when the MoD very kindly shut down all the overseas RAF airfields (with the exception of Cyprus and FI, neither of which need more helos), 28 were forced back to the UK.
Maybe their bad karma continues, thanks to the fact that 28 is the most bantered sqn in the Support Helo force, and probably, in the RAF in general.
Gentleman Aviator
Also used to be said of another sqn (70 ??) - the link seemed to be having been present in Singapore when it was overrun by the Japenese.
Whatever the rubric, the core of the story/myth was always "the only RAF Squadron(s) who ever surrendered to the enemy".
I'll try and do a bit of research and see:
a. Which sqns were in Singapore when it surrendered.
b. Where they were based thereafter.
Whatever the rubric, the core of the story/myth was always "the only RAF Squadron(s) who ever surrendered to the enemy".
I'll try and do a bit of research and see:
a. Which sqns were in Singapore when it surrendered.
b. Where they were based thereafter.
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Maybe the Mods could pop this over to the Military Aircrew thread for a while.
Sqn histories tend not to dwell much on this sort of thing. I did a little research and discovered that 84 Sqn evacuated from Greece. Later they evacuated again from Java, in chaos.
I found myself reading shocking stories from the guys left behind. This included a Japanese prison (hospital?) ship full of Brit & Commonwealth, being torpedoed by the Yanks. Survivors machine gunned in the water by the Japs.
You will find the escape from Java story if you look hard enough. Sold as a triumph of navigation and endurance (which no doubt it was). What is glossed over slightly is that there were two launches found for the escape. The aircrew quickly crashed theirs (I may be wrong, it might have broken down), then OC 84 Sqn ordered all the groundcrew ashore and took over their good launch, with two crews, who then made their famous escape.
This is all from memory. I apologise if I've got anything wrong, but I have met some of the survivors.
Sqn histories tend not to dwell much on this sort of thing. I did a little research and discovered that 84 Sqn evacuated from Greece. Later they evacuated again from Java, in chaos.
I found myself reading shocking stories from the guys left behind. This included a Japanese prison (hospital?) ship full of Brit & Commonwealth, being torpedoed by the Yanks. Survivors machine gunned in the water by the Japs.
You will find the escape from Java story if you look hard enough. Sold as a triumph of navigation and endurance (which no doubt it was). What is glossed over slightly is that there were two launches found for the escape. The aircrew quickly crashed theirs (I may be wrong, it might have broken down), then OC 84 Sqn ordered all the groundcrew ashore and took over their good launch, with two crews, who then made their famous escape.
This is all from memory. I apologise if I've got anything wrong, but I have met some of the survivors.
I've encountered this story before, in my time in Germany it was at one time or another "credited" to virtualy any Sqn with yellow around its on aircraft markings. 16 Sqn was one but 3 or 4 were also mentioned from time to time.
I'm sure that if there was a such a sqn then in the past few years the opportunity would have been taken to quietly abandon the number and preserve a more "deserving " number.
I would like to know if anyone has the definitive answer though. It's always made me wonder.
I'm sure that if there was a such a sqn then in the past few years the opportunity would have been taken to quietly abandon the number and preserve a more "deserving " number.
I would like to know if anyone has the definitive answer though. It's always made me wonder.
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A true story told to me by one of the ground crew survivors. Not sure which sqn but they were in Singapore in 1942 when the Japanese arrived, they had a Boston, (I think) and a Hurricane pilot who had never flown a twin before. When it was obvious that they were going to be over-run the ground crew got the Boston(?) started and the Hurricane pilot agreed to fly it, not sure of the numbers now but I do know there was only one aircrew and several ground crew on board, they flew low level to an area near Palembang in Sumatra where they landed and then walked the rest of the way to the Southern tip of Sumatra, some did not survive the 'walk' and died along the way. Eventually they got across to Java and found passage on a freighter going to Ceylon, (Sri Lanka). When they arrived in Colombo they were given a well publicised and noisy welcome, this upset the Japanese who had known of their escape but failed to find them.
A few days after the freighter left Colombo to return to Java the Japanese detached a couple of warships which sailed down the Indian ocean and blew the freighter and crew out of the water.
The RAF survivors then made their way to India and up almost the entire length of the country to Bombay, (Mumbai) where they were told by the RAF that they were deserters!!! The true story of Singapore was not yet common knowledge. The survivors were never charged but did receive six months of restrictions and extra duties before being dispersed to various other RAF squadrons. The survivor that told me this was my father in law for eighteen years and I know him well enough to know that he would not embellish such a story.
A few days after the freighter left Colombo to return to Java the Japanese detached a couple of warships which sailed down the Indian ocean and blew the freighter and crew out of the water.
The RAF survivors then made their way to India and up almost the entire length of the country to Bombay, (Mumbai) where they were told by the RAF that they were deserters!!! The true story of Singapore was not yet common knowledge. The survivors were never charged but did receive six months of restrictions and extra duties before being dispersed to various other RAF squadrons. The survivor that told me this was my father in law for eighteen years and I know him well enough to know that he would not embellish such a story.
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Interesting.
Certainly not a Boston - too early.
Could have been an RAAF Hudson (in action BEFORE Pearl Harbor) or something even more antiquated; a Blenheim or a Vickers Vildebeest, but both of those had very limited accommodation.
As to the subject of the thread? Barracks scuttlebutt, and already discussed and put to bed on another forum. (FP.)
Regards
Certainly not a Boston - too early.
Could have been an RAAF Hudson (in action BEFORE Pearl Harbor) or something even more antiquated; a Blenheim or a Vickers Vildebeest, but both of those had very limited accommodation.
As to the subject of the thread? Barracks scuttlebutt, and already discussed and put to bed on another forum. (FP.)
Regards
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Thanks JDK, I just cannot remember, it would have been whatever the RAF had in SIN at the time or may have been visiting.
I do know they crammed as many in as they could and that included lads lying in the bomb bay and in the fuselage too. Weight wouldn't have been a problem, about four hours fuel, I would think and the human load would have been a lot less than a bomb load?
I do know they crammed as many in as they could and that included lads lying in the bomb bay and in the fuselage too. Weight wouldn't have been a problem, about four hours fuel, I would think and the human load would have been a lot less than a bomb load?
