Lightning Climb-to-height records

[Gainesy]

when we had an F3 to fly without ventral for a few days,

Rhaja,
Was that at Akrotiri, 1970-71ish? I remember 56 doing tankless F.3 sorties for a few days.

[rhajaramjet]

Gainesy - and Nicosia, Summer of '68 too.

[ORAC]

You doubt my word sir! I'll have you know I used a highly calibrated overlay/widget thingy. You put that high-tech bit of plastic on the screen and aligned it over 5 two mile wide blobs and then eyeballed how many miles it covered. Well the middle of the 5th blobby thing looked past the 20 mile point. Not exactly calibrated for height, temperature or wind I know.......

(Still much more accurate and faster than the SLEWC computer though)

[BOAC]

You put that high-tech bit of plastic on the screen and aligned it over 5 two mile wide blobs and then eyeballed how many miles it covered

- amazing ORAC - that is EXACTLY the same way I used fly those intercepts on the 'unknowns'. Anyone else remember 'smash it to the edge and dribble it down.......'??

PS Being many years older now, I'm still doing that but in not quite the same way

On a more serious note, as I said before, the reheat/cold power handling always seemed like a big issue as rjj says.

[ORAC]

Oh aye, "What do you do with a double engine failure?"...
"Smash it to the edge and follow it round"..

Or the alternate, "Call Midland passing 245".....

[Brain Potter]

Interesting to hear Far East Lightning stories. It leads me to wonder what would have happened if the UK had become involved in Vietnam?

Would Lightnings flying from Thai bases have had enough legs to be at all useful over North Vietnam? 300 nm-ish to Hanoi, so obviously AAR support would have been essential. How would they have fared against the MiGs? I would imagine that been mistaken for a MiG by the cousins would have been a fear. If the Lightning was a non-starter what would have been deployed. Carriers with Sea Vixens?

Just a thought for an idle Sunday.

[teeteringhead]

I would imagine that being mistaken for a MiG by the cousins would have been a fear.

....quite posibly.

In the First Gulf Unpleasantness, the cousins trashed a couple of Lightning gate-guardians in Kuwait as "Goddam Eye-Racki Migs"..

Allegedly....

[rhajaramjet]

Using a development Typhoon for an attempt at some of the time-to-height records is an interesting thought but has one big problem - apart from finding somebody to front up the cash! Typhoon's engine control system would need MAJOR (and expensive) reworking to get around the problem of flame-out at high altitude. Remember the Spanish crash? No RAT or thermal battery, so -
"no donks - hello Martin Baker !!"

[Tarnished]

rhajaramjet you are very much mistaken old chap

The Spanish event had nothing whatsoever to do with altitude and the issue has long since been resolved. Please be very clear about that.

I suggested DA2 as a possibility because id does have an EPS (Emergency Power System). The EPS is commisioned for the high risk trials where there might have been a risk of departure before the FCS was robustly tested. I might add that at no time did any engine anomally occur and furthermore the FCS also behaved perfectly. The EPS is a hydrazine powered thingy which is tripped into life but a number of independant signals - angle of attack, yaw rate, engine RPM and the spin chute being deployed. The latter much to my embarassment (oops!). The spin chute gantry too was only fitted for the early/initial high alpha test points.

So now all we need to do is get Mr Branson to buy the jet when it gets retired in the not too distant future. He can, paint the tail red, plaster the VS logo all over it, get himself checked out and he might get another record in the book.... hmmm note to self, must write a letter

Tarnished

[lightningmate]

Tarnished,

Best you start writing the Risk Assessment, Hazard Analysis etc etc ready for the CAA to think about for a few years.

lm

[Ian Corrigible]

Update from iol.co.za:

Interceptor jet to reach for the stars
Cape Times 12/2

The phrase "reach for the stars" will take on new meaning when a plane attempts to break the national "time to climb" record at the South African Air Force Ysterplaat Air Show on Saturday.

Thunder City, owner of the largest private collection of ex-military jet fighters in the world, will try to set a record for reaching a height of 9 000m.

A record of 6 000m was set in Bredasdorp last Wednesday - one minute and 10 seconds.

The chief executive of Thunder City, Mike Beachy Head, said spectators could expect to see the English Electric Lightning fighter "point its nose to the heavens and basically disappear". Test pilot Dave Stock will be at the controls.

Beachy Head said the Lightning, one of only four flying in the world, was an "interceptor which is very high-flying, very fast and develops about 60 000 horsepower".

All unnecessary equipment has been removed from the jet to decrease its weight for the record attempt.

"It's also been polished to a high finish to make it slippery and it's undergone about 200 hours of maintenance to make sure it works properly."

Spectators will also see displays by other jets, including a Lead-In Fighter Trainer Jet and what is believed to be the world's only flying Buccaneer, a nuclear strike attack bomber which Beachy Head will fly.

[Tarnished]

I wonder what the previous National record was? 70 secs is a bit on the sluggish side.

My Streak Eagle article shows a time of 39.33 secs to 6,000m set on 16 Jan 1975, by a Major WR Macfarlane, with the previous record being an F-4 in 48.79 secs. The Streak Eagle figures are all from brake release (shackle chop actually).

Other records were:
3000m 27.57 sec
9000m 48.86 sec
12000m 59.38 sec
15000m 77.04 sec
20000m 122.94 sec
25000m 161.02 sec
30000m 207.80sec

Tarnished

[Ian Corrigible]

Tarnished,

'Course, the Russians took most of the F-15's records a few years later (1986-88) with the P-42 (Su-27):

3,000m 25 sec
6,000m 37 sec
9,000m 44 sec
12,000m 56 sec
15,000m 70 sec

(20,000m 122.94 sec - Still Streak Eagle)
(25,000m 154 sec - E-266 (MiG-25))
(30,000m 190 sec - E-266)
(35,000m 252 sec - E-266)

Wonder whether LockMart needs anyone to help polish an F/A-22...?



I/C

[Argonautical]

Our local paper had a short article on John Caudwell who was a passenger in a Lightning T5 piloted by Dave Stock that recently broke the record (British & South African) for the fasted climb to 9000 metres (29800ft) from a standing start. The time achieved was 1 minute and 45 seconds.

I quote " We took off at about 100 knots, flying to about 300 ft, giving the pilot a chance to raise the undercarriage. Then we went down to 100ft, skimming over the rooftops of Capetown at 500 knots, before the afterburners were switched on, and we went vertically up. It was just awesome. We were climbing at something like 50000 feet a minute"

During the flight they also had a problem with an afterburner and a faulty parachute.

[lightningmate]

Rotating a T-Bird to airborne at 100KIAS, that is a first!

lm

[Tarnished]

Clearly indicates a healthy air data system, as required by official record attempts

[BOAC]

Cripes! Gary and Geoff were a lot faster than that when they uprooted the barrier at Coltishall

Good old press, eh? To be fair that may have been the last speed the journo saw as he closed his eyes....................

[2 TWU]

Ahhhh Tarnished, you have stirred the old grey matter with Mac Macfarlane's name.

Long ago, before your time at Chiv, Mac was the exchange USAF pilot at the then 229 OCU and on one of his trips managed to make the national press. It was not unknown for the Hunters from Chiv and the Vixens from Yeovilton to get stuck into some pretty unforgiving doggers. Mac got involved in such a fight, 1v1, and no one would give way. As the fight descended, a farmer claimed that one of his cows was knocked off a cliff on the North Devon coast which duly made the press. Although as mere studes we were not shown the gunsight film, apparently the film of the Vixen dodging around the chimneys of Coombe Martin high street was quite entertaining!

All very long ago, maybe someone who was there at the time can add to the story.

Happy Days

[Tarnished]

Must be a special bond between the farmers of Devon and the USAF exchange pilots. During my time the exchange pilot got involved in some low level affil which got stagnated over clump of 3 seasonal red dots. These turned out to be mink farms and poor little critters started gnawing at each other when the were scared, cost HMG a pretty penny.

Same guy managed to open fire on one of the lead in markers on Holbeach range IIRC.

Tarnished