spitfire
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My Grandfathers Axe
I've been following this thread with considerable interest.
When major restoration projects are being undertaken, where is the regulatory dividing line between restoration and replication. Some Aircraft have such major work carried out on them every decade they are effectively being re-restored and each time major structural items are replaced. So over time the result is a lot more sophisticated version of my Grandfather's Axe:
This is my Grandfather's Axe handed down to me.
My father replaced the Handle
I've replaced the Blade.
But it is still my Gandfather's Axe.
So if the CAA certified Axes, should the Axe conform to 2005 Regulations, or 1930's regulations?
Sorry but so many 'basket case' wrecks have been restored over the last decade, I just wonder where the CAA draw the line?
Rambling over.
DIH
When major restoration projects are being undertaken, where is the regulatory dividing line between restoration and replication. Some Aircraft have such major work carried out on them every decade they are effectively being re-restored and each time major structural items are replaced. So over time the result is a lot more sophisticated version of my Grandfather's Axe:
This is my Grandfather's Axe handed down to me.
My father replaced the Handle
I've replaced the Blade.
But it is still my Gandfather's Axe.
So if the CAA certified Axes, should the Axe conform to 2005 Regulations, or 1930's regulations?
Sorry but so many 'basket case' wrecks have been restored over the last decade, I just wonder where the CAA draw the line?
Rambling over.
DIH
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There's no mystery where the line goes. Legally, everything but the data plate with the construction number are spare parts, and can be replaced without making the aircraft another individual!!
This sometimes can give confusions in listings of warbirds. Example, on august 13, 1998, a SNJ-5C crashed
near Winlock, Washington, in USA. This was officially the american built 41-16621 in all paperwork, BUT, the entire airplane was in fact a canadian built Harvard IIb, with the real id being 42-12318, formely FE 831 with RCAF, and 16010 with the Swedish Air Force!
So why did it crash as a SNJ-5
? Well, canadian built Harvards have never been certified for commercial flying in US. They are legal for private flying only. Only reason is that no one have tried to certify a canadian Harvard IIb yet. Who ever does it will have no problems doing it, but will have to pay the initial cost to FAA. All the following aircraft will be for free. This aircraft came from a museum in Sweden. The new owner had plans to do some commercial flying in USA, only to discover the truth about canadian Harvards. So somewhere he found a data plate for a SNJ-5. By legal terms, he did not switch the data plate in the airplane, he simply put a lot of spare parts around the new data plate!! Perfectly legal
! I've seen this done with other airplanes as well.
CAA or FAA doesn't matter. The rules are the same!
This sometimes can give confusions in listings of warbirds. Example, on august 13, 1998, a SNJ-5C crashed
near Winlock, Washington, in USA. This was officially the american built 41-16621 in all paperwork, BUT, the entire airplane was in fact a canadian built Harvard IIb, with the real id being 42-12318, formely FE 831 with RCAF, and 16010 with the Swedish Air Force!So why did it crash as a SNJ-5
? Well, canadian built Harvards have never been certified for commercial flying in US. They are legal for private flying only. Only reason is that no one have tried to certify a canadian Harvard IIb yet. Who ever does it will have no problems doing it, but will have to pay the initial cost to FAA. All the following aircraft will be for free. This aircraft came from a museum in Sweden. The new owner had plans to do some commercial flying in USA, only to discover the truth about canadian Harvards. So somewhere he found a data plate for a SNJ-5. By legal terms, he did not switch the data plate in the airplane, he simply put a lot of spare parts around the new data plate!! Perfectly legal! I've seen this done with other airplanes as well.CAA or FAA doesn't matter. The rules are the same!
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Rubbersidedown.
Many thanks for the comprehensive reply.
So now all I need is the Data Plates from:
A Short Sealand, a DH Albatross and about a dozen other supposedly extinct aircraft.
Plus someone with a an incredible amount of money!
DIH
Many thanks for the comprehensive reply.
So now all I need is the Data Plates from:
A Short Sealand, a DH Albatross and about a dozen other supposedly extinct aircraft.
Plus someone with a an incredible amount of money!
DIH
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Ah Opssys, another lover of the Sealand. There's one surviving at a museum in Ireland (less wings) and there was one in Yugoslavia somewhere as well, though whether it survived the fighting over there...
Back to dataplates...
Remember The Tiger Club's celebrated "oldest DH-82A" G-ACDC. I believe all the wings, the tail and the fuselage were replaced by Rollasons at one time or another - it suffered a number of serious accidents in the 1960s, worst of which saw the old heap, er, dear, rolled practically into a ball by Neville Browning during a crazy flying mishap! And yet it flies one today - the very personification of Grand-dad's axe!
I think that so long as the provenance of the rebuilds doesn't try to pass them off as 100% original and details the rebuild (and I think those doen by Historic Flying, the IOW team, etc, are well documented in how much has been done) then there should be no problem. For me the chance to see several dozen of these beauties in the air at once is spine tingling indeed!
Cheers
Treadders
(PS can I have a go in the Sealand when you get one flying Opssys?)
Back to dataplates...
Remember The Tiger Club's celebrated "oldest DH-82A" G-ACDC. I believe all the wings, the tail and the fuselage were replaced by Rollasons at one time or another - it suffered a number of serious accidents in the 1960s, worst of which saw the old heap, er, dear, rolled practically into a ball by Neville Browning during a crazy flying mishap! And yet it flies one today - the very personification of Grand-dad's axe!
I think that so long as the provenance of the rebuilds doesn't try to pass them off as 100% original and details the rebuild (and I think those doen by Historic Flying, the IOW team, etc, are well documented in how much has been done) then there should be no problem. For me the chance to see several dozen of these beauties in the air at once is spine tingling indeed!
Cheers
Treadders
(PS can I have a go in the Sealand when you get one flying Opssys?)
Cool Mod
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Tis true treadders.
It has crashed more times than my computer. It has been rebuilt many times - one from a spin!
But...................I think its because of its reg - ACDC - it just didn't know what it was. Very queer that!
Oh, and I have 250hrs on it!
It has crashed more times than my computer. It has been rebuilt many times - one from a spin!
But...................I think its because of its reg - ACDC - it just didn't know what it was. Very queer that!
Oh, and I have 250hrs on it!
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Opssys - Yes, that's about right. But you also have to consider the engines, as they are separate entities with their own data plates and logbooks. If your desired wonderplane uses an engine which is generally available, e.g. Merlin, R-2800, Allison, R-1830, then you can go and buy them. If it needs a pair of Vultures or a Napier Sabre then you are going to find it a lot harder.
Pop., Treaders, I've been told that the tailplane spar on ACDC is original. I imagine that's all, apart from the data plate, of course.
Pop., Treaders, I've been told that the tailplane spar on ACDC is original. I imagine that's all, apart from the data plate, of course.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Indeed PPPop, sometimes when it - it? She! - was a Pussycat she was Tigress Moth. And presumably fluttered somehting, but onloy in the presribed manner!
Lowtimer, I heard it was a wheelcover!
Wasn't there also a plan at one time to build new Merlin cores in Central Europe somewhere ?
Lowtimer, I heard it was a wheelcover!
Wasn't there also a plan at one time to build new Merlin cores in Central Europe somewhere ?
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Treadigraph.
Hmm Tiger Club, at my age that means Redhil Aerodrome (as a young spotty spotter, later a less spotty and motorcycling spotter) and the brooding presence of the Bristow HQ.
Rollasons rebuilds of anything Mothy, plus Turbulents and Condors.
Back to Tiger Moths - I have strange belief that Tiger Moths are like the mythical phoenix, no matter the level of destruction, eventually they are reborn.
Shorts Sealand made at the wrong time, but what a lovely aeroplane.
Lowtimer.
Yes I forgot that obtaining original engines would be a major problem and I guess substitution of a modern equivalent would involve a full certification..
Oh Well, this thread has come a long way from where it started,
so it's time for a Pipe of Tobbaco and a daydream about the Shorts Sandringham :-)
DIH
Hmm Tiger Club, at my age that means Redhil Aerodrome (as a young spotty spotter, later a less spotty and motorcycling spotter) and the brooding presence of the Bristow HQ.
Rollasons rebuilds of anything Mothy, plus Turbulents and Condors.
Back to Tiger Moths - I have strange belief that Tiger Moths are like the mythical phoenix, no matter the level of destruction, eventually they are reborn.
Shorts Sealand made at the wrong time, but what a lovely aeroplane.
Lowtimer.
Yes I forgot that obtaining original engines would be a major problem and I guess substitution of a modern equivalent would involve a full certification..
Oh Well, this thread has come a long way from where it started,
so it's time for a Pipe of Tobbaco and a daydream about the Shorts Sandringham :-)
DIH
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DB6 said "Yep, all in favour of that. Now if someone will just build a Stuka (imagine that at an airshow),..."
like this http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...=replica+Stuka
like this http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...=replica+Stuka
