Short Sunderland found well maybe
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Hi Low,
I think your points are all very good.
I still beg to differ on the certainty of particular areas of damage (against the high probability of more damage than seems evident). I'm wary of being dogmatic about how it would've arrived, and a Sunderland (sans engines, fuel, guns, military equipment, people, kit, etc, etc has a lot of surface area (wings and tailplane to work against the not inconsiderable weight - but we can't be sure.
However your other comments seem very -ah- watertight, so I agree. The Times do seem to have gone rather quiet. I do so home they have been had. They can be v. pompous sometimes.
Cheers
PS Yes, would love to see some 'real' pics.
I think your points are all very good.
I still beg to differ on the certainty of particular areas of damage (against the high probability of more damage than seems evident). I'm wary of being dogmatic about how it would've arrived, and a Sunderland (sans engines, fuel, guns, military equipment, people, kit, etc, etc has a lot of surface area (wings and tailplane to work against the not inconsiderable weight - but we can't be sure.
However your other comments seem very -ah- watertight, so I agree. The Times do seem to have gone rather quiet. I do so home they have been had. They can be v. pompous sometimes.
Cheers
PS Yes, would love to see some 'real' pics.
I did post a couple of days ago that the answer was on Flypast`s website, historic and search for sonar.....................!
Thread Starter
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Just to save people the trouble of searching.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...threadid=23204
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...threadid=23064
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...threadid=23204
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...threadid=23064
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LowNSlow
I have tried to PM you but it seems to keep bouncing back.
Send me your pics and I will post. You should have my address from the Auster pics I did for you.
Clint.
I have tried to PM you but it seems to keep bouncing back.
Send me your pics and I will post. You should have my address from the Auster pics I did for you.
Clint.
Just another number
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My guess is that, once under the water, the resistance of the tailplane would have overcome the effect of the aft c of g, and the aircraft would have pitched nose down. Are there any fluid dynamics experts out there? (Does anyone have an old Sunderland that we can experiment with?)
It would be nice if it were true though wouldn't it?
Airclues
It would be nice if it were true though wouldn't it?
Airclues
Self Loathing Froggy
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Captain Airclues
not that sure of the aft CoG actually.
I've got a cold tonight so my thinking might be a bit fuzzy. I guess the scuttling involved opening some windows in order to let the air out while water was flowing into the bottom of the hull. this water would probably change the position of the CoG, but I've got no idea which way.
And I doubt my son would appreciate me experimenting with his 1/72 Airfix model in the bath.
not that sure of the aft CoG actually.
I've got a cold tonight so my thinking might be a bit fuzzy. I guess the scuttling involved opening some windows in order to let the air out while water was flowing into the bottom of the hull. this water would probably change the position of the CoG, but I've got no idea which way.
And I doubt my son would appreciate me experimenting with his 1/72 Airfix model in the bath.
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I am told that when the US Navy scuttle their aircraft to make artificial reefs, the characteristics of the aviation submarines is the same as the aircraft in flight. therefore if the elevator hangs low, you would expect a potentially upside down aircraft, however gust logs in place may well make for a neutral descent to the abyss. There are numerous recorded scuttlings in Northern Ireland lochs, and a survey in 96 failed to find any of the rumoured 25 sunderlands there.
I hope that the story is true and a recovery executed.
I hope that the story is true and a recovery executed.
One place I know there is a scuttled Sunderland is Sullom Voe.
At the annual low tide, the upper surfaces of the wings are exposed. As the BP Oil Terminal was about to open, panic ensued as it was suspected that there may be bombs etc on board. After much hullabaloo it was found to be a stripped out hulk. An old chap who remembered the event told us how the Sunderland had come in from a patrol so badly shot up it would barely float. The captain ran it up onto the slipway. The boat was stripped and towed into deep(ish) water where it remains to this day.
Mr_G check your emails.
Cap'n Airclues good to see you around again.
At the annual low tide, the upper surfaces of the wings are exposed. As the BP Oil Terminal was about to open, panic ensued as it was suspected that there may be bombs etc on board. After much hullabaloo it was found to be a stripped out hulk. An old chap who remembered the event told us how the Sunderland had come in from a patrol so badly shot up it would barely float. The captain ran it up onto the slipway. The boat was stripped and towed into deep(ish) water where it remains to this day.
Mr_G check your emails.
Cap'n Airclues good to see you around again.
Last edited by LowNSlow; 2nd Apr 2004 at 09:32.
sua cuique voluptas
Shorts Sunderland at White Cross Bay
In this month's Pilot there's an article that mentions the Sunderland that was allegedly scuttled in 1945 in White Cross Bay on Lake Windermere. There's a sidescan sonar image showing it intact on the bottom less its engines and with what looks like the wing float gears buckled underneath it.
There are apparently some plans being formulated to raise and restore it as a tribute to Coastal Command.
Does anyone on forum know any further details? It sounds absolutely fascinating!
A few years ago I had a submarine trip at the bottom end of the lake, so I can well believe that it would be fairly well preserved in the ooze.....
Ripline
--------------------
I don't think that the sky *is* the limit, you know. It's more likely to be the ground.
There are apparently some plans being formulated to raise and restore it as a tribute to Coastal Command.
Does anyone on forum know any further details? It sounds absolutely fascinating!
A few years ago I had a submarine trip at the bottom end of the lake, so I can well believe that it would be fairly well preserved in the ooze.....
Ripline
--------------------
I don't think that the sky *is* the limit, you know. It's more likely to be the ground.
Self Loathing Froggy
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A thread on that subject was to be seen less than a month ago on this forum.
For those who still do not know, the SEARCH function is now available 24/7 on PPrune
For those who still do not know, the SEARCH function is now available 24/7 on PPrune
sua cuique voluptas
Well, thanks. Please don't shout - it's rude
The search that I did before posting included Sunderland/White/Cross/Bay didn't turn up any hits.
Thanks for your input anyway. I'll crawl away now and die......
Ripline
The search that I did before posting included Sunderland/White/Cross/Bay didn't turn up any hits.
Thanks for your input anyway. I'll crawl away now and die......
Ripline
Self Loathing Froggy
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Ripline
Sorry, no offence meant, I was not SHOUTING
One suggestion : when searching, start with a reduced set of keywords and refine your search afterwards with more keywords, if, and only if, you are overwhelmed by the results.
Cheers
Bre901
Sorry, no offence meant, I was not SHOUTING
One suggestion : when searching, start with a reduced set of keywords and refine your search afterwards with more keywords, if, and only if, you are overwhelmed by the results.
Cheers
Bre901
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The search function is very simple use a 'username' OR use a word like Sunderland, and since you know it was on this forum you can restrict it to this forum and voila! About 3 seconds it took me. What is all the fuss about?
And yes capital letters are shouting!
Btw, if you believe this story you will...............................believe anything.
And yes capital letters are shouting!
Btw, if you believe this story you will...............................believe anything.
Self Loathing Froggy
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PPRuNe Pop
I didn't mean to offend anyone.
If you take a closer look at my post, you will notice that it was not in capital letters, I just used a large font and boldface , to make it more visible. Capitals were only used to stress the word "search".
For my second post, the smiley after "SHOUTING" should have made it obvious that there was some irony behind it (yes that word exists also on the continent
)
Cheers
I didn't mean to offend anyone.
If you take a closer look at my post, you will notice that it was not in capital letters, I just used a large font and boldface , to make it more visible. Capitals were only used to stress the word "search".
For my second post, the smiley after "SHOUTING" should have made it obvious that there was some irony behind it (yes that word exists also on the continent
)Cheers
