Last piston powered fighter combat
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Last piston powered fighter combat
I was wondering if anyone out there knew when the last piston-powered fighter (or fighter-bomber) fired its guns in combat? I think it was either a Chad Air Force Skyraider or a T-28D in Zaire, both probably around the mid to late 1970s, but am not sure. Cessna 337’s don’t count!
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I fear that this event may have occurred more recently than the 1970s. I believe that one or more of the post Yugoslavia states may have used a Lycoming piston powered aircraft called a Soko Kraguj to attack ground targets during the chaotic unpleasantness in the Balkans of the 1990s. There was one of these aircraft for sale in the UK not so long ago, and I saw this one or another at Elstree (I'm not sure which register it was on; it was wearing a camouflage paint scheme).
See http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...a/airforce.htm
Given the current state of the world, it is difficult confidently to assert that the last firing of weapons in anger by a piston powered aircraft has yet occurred.
Edits: (1) G-INFO shows three Kraguj (Kragujes? Kragujii?) on the UK register.
(2) If you were asking specifically about air to air combat, I don't know the answer.
See http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...a/airforce.htm
Given the current state of the world, it is difficult confidently to assert that the last firing of weapons in anger by a piston powered aircraft has yet occurred.
Edits: (1) G-INFO shows three Kraguj (Kragujes? Kragujii?) on the UK register.
(2) If you were asking specifically about air to air combat, I don't know the answer.
Last edited by FNG; 24th Mar 2004 at 11:23.
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There was that twin engine thing the Argi's used in the Falklands, begins with a P, sorry cannot remember its full name, possibly still sitting outside at Duxford. If Im not mistaken it was flown abit on the UK airshow circuit back in the 80s ?
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That's a Pucara. They had a captured one at Duxford. I can't recall if it is still there. Being hyper-pedantic, however, it doesn't count, as it's a turboprop, not a piston.
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Did the Hondurans use their Corsairs in the Soccer War?
Read a entertaining article recently about Howard Pardue's recovery of the remaining FAH Corsairs! written by one of the pilots... Sadly it was off another site, don't know if I could find it again.
Read a entertaining article recently about Howard Pardue's recovery of the remaining FAH Corsairs! written by one of the pilots... Sadly it was off another site, don't know if I could find it again.
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The Hondurans did use their F4U Corsairs in the 'soccer war', and interestingly a T-28 fired the first shots of the aerial campaign, when a Honduran T-28D forced down a Salvadorean Piper Cherokee which was on a recce flight. The T-28s were then used to fly CAPs over Honduran Air Force bases when the F4Us were being re-armed. However, they proved to be too slow to intercept the F-51D Mustangs and FG-1 Corsairs of the Salvadorean Air Force. Thanks for all the input so far, what about if I changed my original question to 'last radial powered fighter to fire its guns in anger?"
Last edited by Dave Unwin; 24th Mar 2004 at 14:25.
F4-U`s and FG-1`s are radial powered!!!!
edited later- Last combat piston v jet was on 9 Oct 1966 when Lt Tom Patton shot down a Mig 17 over N Vietnam.......
edited later- Last combat piston v jet was on 9 Oct 1966 when Lt Tom Patton shot down a Mig 17 over N Vietnam.......
Last edited by sycamore; 24th Mar 2004 at 16:10.
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Yes, I know that Corsair's are radial-powered (R2800's I think). The question is "what was the last radial engined fighter to fire its guns in combat." I don't know, but I do know that it was not a Corsair.
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FNG - Yes, the Pucara's still at Duxford. Doesn't appear to have had much attention in recent years though, as there are a few panels missing off the nose and she's generally looking rather shabby.
I've got no idea about the last piston v piston combat encounter, but as a slight aside I seem to recall hearing a story about the RAF using Spitfires as 'enemy' to train Lightning pilots in anti-Mustang tactics. Apparently it was something to do with one of our former colonies wanting independence, and us not particularly wanting to grant it.
(Carrying on, and hoping someone more knowledgeable can fill in the gaps!)
The story as I remember it, was that the Indonesians had P51's on strength at the time, and if it had all kicked off majorly there was talk of sending Lightnings to mix it with them, so the THUM Flight Spitfire XIX's were brought in to train Lightning jocks in disimilar air combat tactics. I think they found that if the Mustang managed to lure the Lightning into a tight turning fight, the P51 would win hands down.
Apparently the best tactic for the Lightning boys was to lurk low down until they saw their prey above them, come up from below, hit the P51, light the fires, and scorch their way vertically upwards to FL-ridiculous.
I've got no idea about the last piston v piston combat encounter, but as a slight aside I seem to recall hearing a story about the RAF using Spitfires as 'enemy' to train Lightning pilots in anti-Mustang tactics. Apparently it was something to do with one of our former colonies wanting independence, and us not particularly wanting to grant it.
(Carrying on, and hoping someone more knowledgeable can fill in the gaps!)
The story as I remember it, was that the Indonesians had P51's on strength at the time, and if it had all kicked off majorly there was talk of sending Lightnings to mix it with them, so the THUM Flight Spitfire XIX's were brought in to train Lightning jocks in disimilar air combat tactics. I think they found that if the Mustang managed to lure the Lightning into a tight turning fight, the P51 would win hands down.
Apparently the best tactic for the Lightning boys was to lurk low down until they saw their prey above them, come up from below, hit the P51, light the fires, and scorch their way vertically upwards to FL-ridiculous.
Beauman, I seem to recall reading a report on that sometime in my mispent youth. I think that your facts are pretty much spot on, except that the elderly spits were primarily used for evaluating that technique, and there wasn't much done in the way of formal training afterwards. I've a neighbour who was a Lightning QWI of the period, I'll ask him next he's in the pub.
G
G
D.U.
You will have to define what you want combat to mean; ie air-to-air, or air-to-ground,ie shooting up trucks, people tanks etc..
If it`s the latter, then the AD probably has it, as it operated in Chad up to about`84, and possibly Gabon.
If its air-to- air, then it`s F4U........
You will have to define what you want combat to mean; ie air-to-air, or air-to-ground,ie shooting up trucks, people tanks etc..
If it`s the latter, then the AD probably has it, as it operated in Chad up to about`84, and possibly Gabon.
If its air-to- air, then it`s F4U........
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The Philippine Air Force used T-28's for air to air and air to ground combat in the 1986 EDSA Revolution (when Marcos was removed) but I also think the T-28's (and F-5's) have been used since in air to ground action against the rebels in the Southern Philippines, in more recent times.
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I guess 'combat' means someone may/is shooting back at you?
That would exclude the Sea Fury whcih shot down the runaway Auster off Sydney back in the '50's?? The RAAF Meteor [?] either had the guns jam and/or ran out of ammo!
Very embarrassing.
G'day
That would exclude the Sea Fury whcih shot down the runaway Auster off Sydney back in the '50's??
The RAAF Meteor [?] either had the guns jam and/or ran out of ammo! Very embarrassing.G'day
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The Auster incident was worse than just one RAAF attempt. They tried a Wirraway with a Bren in the back which didn't jam however the guy manning it didn't know about the change lever so it only fired a single shot and it was thought to have jammed. Next they tried a jet, that jammed.
Meanwhile the Navy rounded up the drunk with the keys to the ammo store and sent off Sea Furies. As is there was another Auster was monitoring the AWOL one Sea Fury pilot called up "I have two Austers in sight, which one will I shoot down" to which the reply was "Not me old boy I'm the one on top"
Meanwhile the Navy rounded up the drunk with the keys to the ammo store and sent off Sea Furies. As is there was another Auster was monitoring the AWOL one Sea Fury pilot called up "I have two Austers in sight, which one will I shoot down" to which the reply was "Not me old boy I'm the one on top"
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Re the Lightning vs Spitfire exercises, I have a book somewhere which mentions these, and seem to recall that neither one could get a shot on the other. If the Lighning was attacking, the Spitfire would just turn like crazy and the jet couldn't follow. If the Spitfire got near to a firing position, the Lightning would just light up and hurtle for the heavens. Lots of no-score draws apparently.
PS Deaf, thanks for the Auster story: very good!
PS Deaf, thanks for the Auster story: very good!
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Woomera - thanks for the info, I don’t suppose you know if the Philippine T-28s were D models or T28S Fennecs do you? I flew a Fennec last month (hence my interest) and am currently writing a flight report - they’re wonderful machines!
Sycamore - my dictionary seems to agree with Feather 3 - ‘Combat’ means a battle or contest.
Sycamore - my dictionary seems to agree with Feather 3 - ‘Combat’ means a battle or contest.
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All PAF aircraft regardless must surely be pre delivery A models, rejected by western air forces! 
Don't know the model but they had two bladed props, not three bladed like the T-28's in Australia. There was only a couple serviceable last time I was there some years ago, but some General was trying to flog off about eight T-28's at Sangley Base in various stages of disassembly, probably as a retirement income project!
Oddly enough, the Philippine Airforce web site makes no mention of the T-28's except "...December 1, 1989 ... he and two other combat pilots destroyed one Sikorsky helicopter, seven T-28s and a fuel depot...."
Talking of props and the PAF - someone flogged the prop off the P51 Mustang in the PAF MUseum at Villamore Air Base - and replaced it with a ply wood copy, presumably hoping no one would notice!
Found two disassembled Beech Mentors hidden in a hangar at Plaridel airport, north of Manila...... Looked in reasonable condition. Hangar next door had a number of disassembled Austers. Also found eight or nine disassembled Boeing Steaman in a hangar at Manila airport. Aboitiz Air Freight had a few dead ex RAAF C-130A's and NAMC YS-11's on Manila airport.
There used to be heaps of ancient interesting aircraft in the Philippines, but guess they have mostly gone now.
From the Philippine Air Force web site: "Villamor soon found himself in B-17 and B-22 cockpits..."
What is a B-22????
All I can find is the B22 Vickers Wellesley and Douglas B-22 (proposed adaptation of B-18 to take two Wright R-2600 radials - cancelled in favor of B-23), but it won't be those they are referring to.
Don't know the model but they had two bladed props, not three bladed like the T-28's in Australia. There was only a couple serviceable last time I was there some years ago, but some General was trying to flog off about eight T-28's at Sangley Base in various stages of disassembly, probably as a retirement income project!
Oddly enough, the Philippine Airforce web site makes no mention of the T-28's except "...December 1, 1989 ... he and two other combat pilots destroyed one Sikorsky helicopter, seven T-28s and a fuel depot...."
Talking of props and the PAF - someone flogged the prop off the P51 Mustang in the PAF MUseum at Villamore Air Base - and replaced it with a ply wood copy, presumably hoping no one would notice!
Found two disassembled Beech Mentors hidden in a hangar at Plaridel airport, north of Manila...... Looked in reasonable condition. Hangar next door had a number of disassembled Austers. Also found eight or nine disassembled Boeing Steaman in a hangar at Manila airport. Aboitiz Air Freight had a few dead ex RAAF C-130A's and NAMC YS-11's on Manila airport.
There used to be heaps of ancient interesting aircraft in the Philippines, but guess they have mostly gone now.
From the Philippine Air Force web site: "Villamor soon found himself in B-17 and B-22 cockpits..."
What is a B-22????
All I can find is the B22 Vickers Wellesley and Douglas B-22 (proposed adaptation of B-18 to take two Wright R-2600 radials - cancelled in favor of B-23), but it won't be those they are referring to.
Last edited by Woomera; 26th Mar 2004 at 07:04.
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The PAF had ex-USAF T-28As as trainers, but the armed aircraft — two squadrons — were Fairchild-remanufactured AT-28Ds with ejection seats, .50 cal minigun pods and two underwing stores stations per wing.