Wikiposts
Search
Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

First Jets brainteaser

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 1st Feb 2004, 22:07
  #1 (permalink)  
JDK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Covering the Commonwealth
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
First Jets brainteaser

OK, I’m sure everyone can remember that Germany was first into the air with the He178 in 1939, and Britain second with the Gloster E28/39, while the Americans made it third with the Bell XP-59.

But, how many more first national jets can you name? (Points for type, date, location, nation, and any extra ‘odd facts’ as well as a pic!) It’s a bit of fun, so here’s a few teasers to get it going.

1. Which country’s first jet was named ‘Spark’?

2. Which country’s first jet competed in the Lockheed Aerobatic Trophy?

3. Which country had two jets ready at the same time, so the first flight was followed by a second type hours later?

4. Which country’s first jet was intended to be an unmanned target?

5. How many ‘first jets’ are preserved and where? (Open Q this one!)

What was the last (to date) nation’s ‘first jet’ flight?

It’s an open thread (let’s see how much data can be snowballed onto it!) but for the record a first jet (to me!) is a new design flown as that country’s first indigenous machine – designer, engine and help can (and often were) foreign. By all means add first jet airliners, first rockets etc...

Enjoy!

Cheers
J
JDK is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2004, 22:20
  #2 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London,Bucharest...wherever...
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Q4 - Oz - Jindevik
Boss Raptor is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2004, 22:21
  #3 (permalink)  
JDK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Covering the Commonwealth
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fast.

But for you million points, date please!
JDK is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2004, 22:49
  #4 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London,Bucharest...wherever...
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oct 31st 1950, Woomera
Boss Raptor is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2004, 23:00
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
2. Fokker S-14 'K-1' flown by Prince Bernhard of The Netherlands' personal pilot Gerben Sonderman in the 1955 Lockheed Aerobatic Trophy 19-20 August. (Nostalgic chorus of 'Ah, the Lockheed!'). Sonderman suffered an engine failure while inverted during his opening day's sequence, deadsticked the S-14 and was eliminated by the judges. Frenchman Alain Hisler placed second that year in the Sipa Minijet, between fellow countrymen winner (the great) Leon Biancotto and d'Huc Dressler, both Stampe-mounted.

3. Soviet Union. MiG I-200 (prototype MiG-9) and Yak-15. Both ready to fly at Chkalovskaya Flight Test Centre on 24 April 1946, to be flown respectively by 'Lesha' Grinchik and Mikhail Ivanov. Tossed coin for first to fly, Grinchik won, Ivanov followed.

JDK: can I add one? Which jet-engined aircraft made the first arrested landing on a carrier's deck? I had cause to check this just this past week, and found that the answer wasn't what I'd expected.
Aerohack is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2004, 23:04
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,829
Received 275 Likes on 111 Posts
1. Poland. PZL 'Iskra'.
2. Holland.
3. Soviet Union
4. Australia
5. Several!

Ryan XFR-1 Fireball. But the first pure jet was the DH Vampire on HMS Ocean.
BEagle is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 00:55
  #7 (permalink)  
JDK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Covering the Commonwealth
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Good stuff.

Boss raptor is winnging the speed prize, while Aerohack wins the freight pr 'detailled answers' prize.

Beagle gets the clevercloggs award for failling to provide details!

More please!

If you answer one, you can ask one - how's that?
JDK is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 02:17
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Outstanding, BEagle. Until a nagging doubt prompted me to double check a few days ago, my money was on 'Winkle' Brown in the Vampire.
Aerohack is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 02:46
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LANCASHIRE
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
rocket power

an OPEL SANDER RAK flew under rocket power in 1929, reaching 95mph in the process. it must have been interesting as it was a wood and canvas machine more like a training glider with twin booms
bolmas is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 03:51
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So how many all-wood jets can we name (Vampires/Venoms with their wooden fuselage pods excluded)? I can think of maybe half-a-dozen.

.
Aerohack is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 03:52
  #11 (permalink)  
JDK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Covering the Commonwealth
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hey, this could be fun!
Aerohack - I think it's that "Probably the best lager in the World" moment - the first 'pure' jet to land on a carrier.... Isn't that LZ551/G preserved at the magnificent Fleet Air Arm Museum, Yeovilton?

The Opel Rak - Indeed. Also had advertising on the side - early 'product placement'(?) There was a replica in the rafters at La Ferte Alais. I'll see if I can find a photy.

We seem to be missing some important countries here - first 'not really a jet but looks like one'? with garlic?

And talking of Garlic - France... What was unusual about their efforts?

Keep 'em coming...

Cheers
James K
JDK is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 04:59
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,829
Received 275 Likes on 111 Posts
JDK: Caproni-Campini CC2?

Bella macchina!!

What was strange about the early French jets? Dunno - except that the Triton SO 6000 (first French jet ac) was developed whilst France was still occupied. Also think it first flew with a German Junkers Jumo engine, but I'm not sure.

Last edited by BEagle; 2nd Feb 2004 at 05:36.
BEagle is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 05:30
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 39N 77W
Posts: 1,630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What country's first [operational?] jet was created by replacing the German piston engine with a British jet engine?
seacue is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 05:36
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
JDK: Yes, it's the 'pure jet' that's important here; the Fireball was a hybrid piston/jet, but was nonetheless the first aircraft fitted with a jet engine to trap aboard a carrier.

Thinking of swapping props for jets, which two commonplace business turboprops have also flown — with minimal modification — as jets? One should be easy, the other slightly more obscure.
Aerohack is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 05:40
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: east ESSEX
Posts: 4,676
Received 70 Likes on 45 Posts
SAAB J-21R, replaced the DB605( licence-built) with a D-H Goblin.


Aerohack- King Air 200 , replaced PT6`S with JT15`s to become FanJet 400, but didn`t enter production...

Rockwell Jet Commander?

Last edited by sycamore; 2nd Feb 2004 at 06:00.
sycamore is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 05:52
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,829
Received 275 Likes on 111 Posts
Apart from the P1127, Kestrel and Harrier, which other British jet aircraft was flown with vectored thrust?
BEagle is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 05:56
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
syc: Quick work, and that was the difficult one! They called it PD290 initially. Last I heard it was sitting engineless at Boulder, Colorado, but that was a long time ago. The other was much nearer home (assuming you're in Europe).
Aerohack is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 06:19
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: east ESSEX
Posts: 4,676
Received 70 Likes on 45 Posts
Aerohack- ..we crossed, I re -edited my previous reply..

BEagle.. Hunting HP 126, and I am sure the 4 downward-facing jets on the Shorts SC1 had an element of f/a trim.....I`ll ask a friend who flew it.... 5 minute sortie length around Bedford...
sycamore is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 06:19
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,916
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Beags, Buccaneer? (boundary layer control).
spekesoftly is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2004, 06:35
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,829
Received 275 Likes on 111 Posts
Hmm - OK, half a point for the Hunting H. 126. Not really 'vectored thrust', more jet-flap. Nozzles were fixed, but most of the BS Orpheus' oomph was exhausted through the trailing edge flap slit.

Buccaneer - nope. Just a bit of blow (rather a lot actually) over the flaps, ailerons and tailplane flap.

Yes, SC1 could tilt its 4 RB 108s through 35 deg fore and aft to assist with decels and translation, so I'll have to give you that.

But which other British jet aircraft (not a P1127 derivative) - without separate lift engines - was flown with thrust vectoring fitted to the main propulsion system?
BEagle is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.