Shorts Belfast- farewell!
Cunning Artificer
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That aeronautical contraption was a world beater hairyclameater? Good Lord, what a peculiar idea. Frankly I'm amazed that anyone would consider trying to operate them as a commercial proposition. Except that we all know that the best way to make a small fortune is to start with a large fortune and set up an airline...
Still the old Belslows were responsible for lots of good 'Jollies' whenever one of them managed to leave BZN. We were guaranteed at least one and usually two recovery trips down-route. I have particularly fond memories of a two week tropical engine change, Rolls Royce having cleverly included trim charts for the Tyne that went down to minus 20 degrees C but decided that no-one would ever wish to trim one at more than 25 C.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
Just realised, it often gets above 25C at Brisbane, I hope Rolls Royce have sorted out their Tyne engine trim charts by now...
Still the old Belslows were responsible for lots of good 'Jollies' whenever one of them managed to leave BZN. We were guaranteed at least one and usually two recovery trips down-route. I have particularly fond memories of a two week tropical engine change, Rolls Royce having cleverly included trim charts for the Tyne that went down to minus 20 degrees C but decided that no-one would ever wish to trim one at more than 25 C.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
Just realised, it often gets above 25C at Brisbane, I hope Rolls Royce have sorted out their Tyne engine trim charts by now...
Last edited by Blacksheep; 27th Sep 2003 at 19:23.
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BS
Re those Tynes - surely the French, Germans and in partic the Turks have been using Tynes for several decades on hot n high missions attached to their Transalls??? Dont hear them complaining.
Ive previously only heard great things about the beast and with further development surely could have gone on to better things!
411A
Yeah may be a poor comparison with a Gulfstream but bet one couldnt operate out of EGLC without upsetting a few neighbours.
Also should say for HS146 , read HS681 - originally designed to be a STOL transport to support Harriers out in the field I believe.
All the best to the Belfast- just hope she can make it back to the UK again some time.
Re those Tynes - surely the French, Germans and in partic the Turks have been using Tynes for several decades on hot n high missions attached to their Transalls??? Dont hear them complaining.
Ive previously only heard great things about the beast and with further development surely could have gone on to better things!
411A
Yeah may be a poor comparison with a Gulfstream but bet one couldnt operate out of EGLC without upsetting a few neighbours.
Also should say for HS146 , read HS681 - originally designed to be a STOL transport to support Harriers out in the field I believe.
All the best to the Belfast- just hope she can make it back to the UK again some time.
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<<<
Also should say for HS146 , read HS681 - originally designed to be a STOL transport to support Harriers out in the field I believe.
>>>
Is that true ? I thought the HS681 was a much larger 'C-17' look-alike military transport (which was axed along with the TSR-2 and P.1154) in 1965. I did not think it led to the HS/BAe 146, but you may be right.....
Also should say for HS146 , read HS681 - originally designed to be a STOL transport to support Harriers out in the field I believe.
>>>
Is that true ? I thought the HS681 was a much larger 'C-17' look-alike military transport (which was axed along with the TSR-2 and P.1154) in 1965. I did not think it led to the HS/BAe 146, but you may be right.....
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RE HS681- Just from info Ive gleaned from ye olde RAF yearbooks or rather "souvenir" books as they were then. (Were'nt they better then in the 70s and early 80s before the Key publishing and RAF Benevolent fund monopolies got hold of them with their awful photography and bland commentary!??)Certainly the images reveal a 146 sized machine and a very similar one at that!! The illustration I recall has a 681 on approach over a Harrier or two " in the field". Dont think it was a very realistic proposition.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Doug Arnold's Liberator came from India to Stansted in a HeavyLift Belfast I believe... thence by road to Blackbushe (and now flying with the Collings Foundation).
Great aeroplane, sincerely hope she'll make it back to Blighty occasioanlly. Did see RAF examples once or twice in the early 70s but, oddly, never saw a HeavyLift one in the air...
Great aeroplane, sincerely hope she'll make it back to Blighty occasioanlly. Did see RAF examples once or twice in the early 70s but, oddly, never saw a HeavyLift one in the air...
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For a history of the Short's Belfast see Molly O'Loughlin White's book: Belfast - the story of Short's Big Lifter. Published by Midland Counties Publications, ISBN 0 904597 52 0
The story goes, if my memory serves me correctly, that Shorts was developing the aircraft against an MOD order for 30 aircraft to serve the 'strategic' airlift requirements at the time (about '64). Shorts was designing the aircraft to meet both military and civil certification requirements.
The sterling crisis of '64 left the Labout gov't (who else) desperate for support from the IMF and part of the deal with the US was that they would help with support for the pound in exchange for purchase of the present fleet of ~75 C130K for the RAF. With that sort of commitment, the RAF obviously didn't need all that airlift and chopped the order to 10.
Shorts no longer had the numbers (i.e. money) to support the further development or the civil certification. Hence the engine was never developed to take the bigger prop (supposed to be 18' dia) and the aircraft has been underpowered throughout it's life.
Little known - the Belfast was the second a/c after the Trident to be equipped with cat 3 autoland. Same reason as BA specified it to land in the fog at LHR, the RAF thought it would be a good idea for a certain busy Wiltshire countryside landing strip.
lybid
The story goes, if my memory serves me correctly, that Shorts was developing the aircraft against an MOD order for 30 aircraft to serve the 'strategic' airlift requirements at the time (about '64). Shorts was designing the aircraft to meet both military and civil certification requirements.
The sterling crisis of '64 left the Labout gov't (who else) desperate for support from the IMF and part of the deal with the US was that they would help with support for the pound in exchange for purchase of the present fleet of ~75 C130K for the RAF. With that sort of commitment, the RAF obviously didn't need all that airlift and chopped the order to 10.
Shorts no longer had the numbers (i.e. money) to support the further development or the civil certification. Hence the engine was never developed to take the bigger prop (supposed to be 18' dia) and the aircraft has been underpowered throughout it's life.
Little known - the Belfast was the second a/c after the Trident to be equipped with cat 3 autoland. Same reason as BA specified it to land in the fog at LHR, the RAF thought it would be a good idea for a certain busy Wiltshire countryside landing strip.
lybid
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I have somewhere seen a picture of all 10 Belfasts flying together in loose formation.
Not sure, but I vaguely recall it's the only time the entire production of an aircraft type has been photographed in the air at the same time in the same picture.
Not sure, but I vaguely recall it's the only time the entire production of an aircraft type has been photographed in the air at the same time in the same picture.
The above is not quite accurate. XR364 was the aircraft used in the blind landing trials. She did over 800 such landings at RAE Bedford and the system was so accurate that they had to introduce a random scatter into the system for she was starting to crack up the runway surface by landing on the same spot each time.
It was XR364 that was the 10th aircraft to be delivered after modifications on 3 November 1971.
I have a couple of photographs of the formation but have no idea how to copy them on to this thread. They were taken from a Jet Provost from Little Rissington.
It was XR364 that was the 10th aircraft to be delivered after modifications on 3 November 1971.
I have a couple of photographs of the formation but have no idea how to copy them on to this thread. They were taken from a Jet Provost from Little Rissington.
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JW411
If they are digital, I would be quite happy to use my webspace to host them and put them up here. If not then they would need to be scanned in.
If they are digital, I would be quite happy to use my webspace to host them and put them up here. If not then they would need to be scanned in.
I have received a private message from Mike Jenvey. I have explained that the best photograph (of three) is taken from above and clearly shows the 10 aircraft in a quite presentable vic 3/vic 3/box 4 formation.
The trouble is that the photograph is far too big for my A4 scanner to deal with! (The photograph is approximately A3 size).
Anyway, I shall work on the problem with Mike and we shall see if a solution can be found.
The trouble is that the photograph is far too big for my A4 scanner to deal with! (The photograph is approximately A3 size).
Anyway, I shall work on the problem with Mike and we shall see if a solution can be found.
Cunning Artificer
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She was here in Borneo recently, to haul out one of our knackered PW4056's. True to form she went U/S twice on the way in from Brisbane and once outbound with the PW4056 aboard. Altogether it took a week to shift the engine, but also true to form there wasn't anything else available at the time that could handle that big Pratt fan.
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See it all the time at Brisbane. Lovely sight it is too. It even flew over my house the other day (rare sighting), and what a sound she has!
Got a tonne of photos of her if anyone is interested, as well as the 727-100 HeavyLift also uses from Brisbane.
Got a tonne of photos of her if anyone is interested, as well as the 727-100 HeavyLift also uses from Brisbane.
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Your pictures are more than welcome - but NOT in an oversize that big! We can go along with 640 x 480 up to 700 x 550ish but not so that the page widens and loses the text without scrolling back and forth Bit irritating that, and the old uns sometimes have arthritis you know! 
Thanks for the nice pics anyway.
Thanks for the nice pics anyway.