Spitfire - reputation and reality
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Spitfire - reputation and reality
I'm doing some work towards an article on the "cult" of the Spitfire, trying to trace how and why a front-line fighter aircraft has over the years achieved such an extraordinary status and public appeal.
If anybody has any opinions or theories on the following topics, I would be interested in hearing them!
1. Why do you think the Spitfire has taken such deep root in the public conciousness, to the exclusion of almost every other contemporary aircraft?
2. Does the Spitfire deserve the public reputation it has acquired?
3. Has the reputation of any contemporary machine being reduced because of the public's all-encompassing hero-worship of the Spitfire?
Thank you for reading this, and for any comments you may care to make. I must point out that I'm as besotted with Mitchell's masterpiece as everybody else; this is just an academic exercise!
If anybody has any opinions or theories on the following topics, I would be interested in hearing them!
1. Why do you think the Spitfire has taken such deep root in the public conciousness, to the exclusion of almost every other contemporary aircraft?
2. Does the Spitfire deserve the public reputation it has acquired?
3. Has the reputation of any contemporary machine being reduced because of the public's all-encompassing hero-worship of the Spitfire?
Thank you for reading this, and for any comments you may care to make. I must point out that I'm as besotted with Mitchell's masterpiece as everybody else; this is just an academic exercise!
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1. Why do you think the Spitfire has taken such deep root in the public conciousness, to the exclusion of almost every other contemporary aircraft?
firstly, because it is the most beutiful aeroplane ever built. Secondly, because it is associated with winning the Battle of Britain, a time when only the fighters of the RAF stood between freedom and invasion by Hitler. Actually, it's the Hurricane that really deserves the BoB plaudits - but the Spit is sexier and has a sexier name and such things often prevail above truth.
2. Does the Spitfire deserve the public reputation it has acquired?
For the reasons stated above, no. But for being such a beutiful and (I'm told) superb flying machine - yes!
3. Has the reputation of any contemporary machine being reduced because of the public's all-encompassing hero-worship of the Spitfire?
See my answer to (1) re the Hurricane. Other than that, no.
SSD
firstly, because it is the most beutiful aeroplane ever built. Secondly, because it is associated with winning the Battle of Britain, a time when only the fighters of the RAF stood between freedom and invasion by Hitler. Actually, it's the Hurricane that really deserves the BoB plaudits - but the Spit is sexier and has a sexier name and such things often prevail above truth.
2. Does the Spitfire deserve the public reputation it has acquired?
For the reasons stated above, no. But for being such a beutiful and (I'm told) superb flying machine - yes!
3. Has the reputation of any contemporary machine being reduced because of the public's all-encompassing hero-worship of the Spitfire?
See my answer to (1) re the Hurricane. Other than that, no.
SSD
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Agree with SSD.
1. It became a symbol to the populace in what were very dark times. Dashing/Glory etc. and it is a very pretty aircraft - it simply looks right.
2. Yes. Nuff said.
3. Only the Hurricane, but it also overshadowed the whole air fleet of the time. Rightly so - without it our history and the rest of Europes would have been different. I think it also pushed bi-planes out of the picture totally which is a shame as the Gladiator was a good bit of kit if Norway and Malta are anything to go by. You could argue that the Lancaster was late into production as all the Merlins were going into Spitfire production and / maybe the Manchester with twin Merlins would have made a good medium bomber. But that is more 1941 I belive.
1. It became a symbol to the populace in what were very dark times. Dashing/Glory etc. and it is a very pretty aircraft - it simply looks right.
2. Yes. Nuff said.
3. Only the Hurricane, but it also overshadowed the whole air fleet of the time. Rightly so - without it our history and the rest of Europes would have been different. I think it also pushed bi-planes out of the picture totally which is a shame as the Gladiator was a good bit of kit if Norway and Malta are anything to go by. You could argue that the Lancaster was late into production as all the Merlins were going into Spitfire production and / maybe the Manchester with twin Merlins would have made a good medium bomber. But that is more 1941 I belive.
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Thank you SSD!
This business about the Spit winning the Battle of Britain is a major whinge of mine! The facts are fairly clear and well-reported, but public opinion still excludes the Hurricanes, Defiants, fighter-variant Blenheims, Gladiators and the ground defences; the crucial roles of the Observer Corps, RDF (radar) and above all the decision by Hitler to change target from the airfields to London.
Many downed Luftwaffe pilots in 1940 claimed to have been shot down by Spitfires even if there were none involved in the combat - "Spitfire Snobbery" operates in many ways!
Anybody else want to have their say?
This business about the Spit winning the Battle of Britain is a major whinge of mine! The facts are fairly clear and well-reported, but public opinion still excludes the Hurricanes, Defiants, fighter-variant Blenheims, Gladiators and the ground defences; the crucial roles of the Observer Corps, RDF (radar) and above all the decision by Hitler to change target from the airfields to London.
Many downed Luftwaffe pilots in 1940 claimed to have been shot down by Spitfires even if there were none involved in the combat - "Spitfire Snobbery" operates in many ways!
Anybody else want to have their say?
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The whole BoB story is quite a mix of fact, hearsay, legend and misunderstanding. After all, the Hurricane had a pretty sexy name too, but of course everyone wanted to say they had flown, worked on, seen, or been shot down by a Spitfire.
I was privileged enough to meet 'Ginger' Lacey once, he recounted that if every man who said he had flown in the Battle had actually done so, there wouldn't have been room to manoevre in the skies!
My own personal opinion is that the UK government wanted something they could use to a) inspire the British public, and b) strike fear into the enemy.
So, whenever possible, newscasts would say how many Spitfires had risen to beat off the Hun, and shot down hordes of them with minimal loss to ourselves.
The Spit was an advanced aircraft for its' time, comparing it to the Hawker products of the thirties, and so the mantle of 'wonder plane' fitted it quite well.
I've just finished Alfred Price's 'The Spitfire Story' which is an absolute gem of a book - it goes deeply into the development of the aircraft itself, in contrast to the many other books on the subject which concentrate more on those who flew them.
I was privileged enough to meet 'Ginger' Lacey once, he recounted that if every man who said he had flown in the Battle had actually done so, there wouldn't have been room to manoevre in the skies!
My own personal opinion is that the UK government wanted something they could use to a) inspire the British public, and b) strike fear into the enemy.
So, whenever possible, newscasts would say how many Spitfires had risen to beat off the Hun, and shot down hordes of them with minimal loss to ourselves.
The Spit was an advanced aircraft for its' time, comparing it to the Hawker products of the thirties, and so the mantle of 'wonder plane' fitted it quite well.
I've just finished Alfred Price's 'The Spitfire Story' which is an absolute gem of a book - it goes deeply into the development of the aircraft itself, in contrast to the many other books on the subject which concentrate more on those who flew them.
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Government spin of the day then - Weapons of mass interception?
From an engineering standpoint, to have the development capability on the basic design to transition from nominally 1000hp and a fixed pitch two blade prop to 2200hp and a six blade contra-prop whilst substatially increasing the fire power and the top speed by about 100mph is nothing short of phenomenal.
Mark22 (biased)
From an engineering standpoint, to have the development capability on the basic design to transition from nominally 1000hp and a fixed pitch two blade prop to 2200hp and a six blade contra-prop whilst substatially increasing the fire power and the top speed by about 100mph is nothing short of phenomenal.
Mark22 (biased)
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NT, the better book about the development of the Spitfire has to be Jeffrey Quill's "Spitfire - a Test Pilot's Story" a truly great read. Almost every detail of it's development must be there I would think.
I am reading again for about the 6th time.
I am reading again for about the 6th time.
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No 1 It saved our countrys Arse.
No2 Its the most graceful man made object ever to fly
No 3 It sounds magnificent when at full chat
No4 it only cost about £3.5k to build
No5 Talk to any German flyer, who was ever shot down and it was always a Spitfire that got him
No6 SPITFIRE what a name!!
No2 Its the most graceful man made object ever to fly
No 3 It sounds magnificent when at full chat
No4 it only cost about £3.5k to build
No5 Talk to any German flyer, who was ever shot down and it was always a Spitfire that got him
No6 SPITFIRE what a name!!
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Out of curiosity Mark22 how much of the original design Spifire (by piece part number) was there left to go with the 6 blade prop, bubble canopy, Griffon engine, etc, etc in the last mark Spitfire?
I'm doing some work towards an article on the "cult" of the Spitfire, trying to trace how and why a front-line fighter aircraft has over the years achieved such an extraordinary status and public appeal.
1. Why do you think the Spitfire has taken such deep root in the public conciousness, to the exclusion of almost every other contemporary aircraft?
2. Does the Spitfire deserve the public reputation it has acquired?
3. Has the reputation of any contemporary machine being reduced because of the public's all-encompassing hero-worship of the Spitfire?
Probably the two pilots I've had the greatest respect for amongs my personal acquaintance were both people who. amongst many many other types, have both told me that the clipped-wing Spitfire was the best aeroplane to go to WW2 in. Given both had flown well over 100 types, including many contemporary fighters (and one has quite a few hours on a Bf109), I think that they probably knew what they were talking about.
G
Proud son of a Supermarine design engineer - who never worked on the Spitfire !
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foxmoth
You would like to fly a Spitifire before you expire?
Me, I would like to fly a real aircraft, an aeroplane that could fly rings around a Spitfire, an aeroplane that could outperform a Mustang, quite easily if only it had had the Mustang's primitive early G-suit.
What am I talking about? That wonderful, superlative aeroplane, the Focke Wolfe 190.
You would like to fly a Spitifire before you expire?
Me, I would like to fly a real aircraft, an aeroplane that could fly rings around a Spitfire, an aeroplane that could outperform a Mustang, quite easily if only it had had the Mustang's primitive early G-suit.
What am I talking about? That wonderful, superlative aeroplane, the Focke Wolfe 190.
Dragon Rapide
If you can find a copy, Aeroplane Monthly for August '95 carried an article by a Canadian - Rod Smith - (WWII Spit pilot). It was written to take issue with Roly Beamont's feature on the Hurricane in the same publication's Feb '94 issue. I don't have the R B article but have the Aug '95 issue and, if all else fails, could probably scan and e-mail it.
Many more 'Hurris' than Spits around during B of B of course but he makes the very valid point that the thick leading edge of the Hurricane wing meant that it was slower and never going to be developed any further, where the elegant aerofoil of the Spitfire had lots of spare potential.
If you can find a copy, Aeroplane Monthly for August '95 carried an article by a Canadian - Rod Smith - (WWII Spit pilot). It was written to take issue with Roly Beamont's feature on the Hurricane in the same publication's Feb '94 issue. I don't have the R B article but have the Aug '95 issue and, if all else fails, could probably scan and e-mail it.
Many more 'Hurris' than Spits around during B of B of course but he makes the very valid point that the thick leading edge of the Hurricane wing meant that it was slower and never going to be developed any further, where the elegant aerofoil of the Spitfire had lots of spare potential.
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Until the last line, I thought that Gerund meant the Lightning!
Seriously however, since the Meteor was also British and WW2, I wonder if anybody knows how a Spit.v.Meteor fight would go - that would be an interesting comparison.
P
Seriously however, since the Meteor was also British and WW2, I wonder if anybody knows how a Spit.v.Meteor fight would go - that would be an interesting comparison.
P
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The name should begin with an 'S' and be an animal. That was the rule in the thirties - I believe the 'S' was allocated to Vickers, who had taken over Supermarine, and the animal was allocated to fighter types - I may be wrong on this, somebody correct me, please.
The Shrew was mooted, but it was changed to SPitfire soon after.
Would it have mattered - probably not. What's in a name anyway - a rose by any other name would be as sweet!
A
The Shrew was mooted, but it was changed to SPitfire soon after.
Would it have mattered - probably not. What's in a name anyway - a rose by any other name would be as sweet!
A
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Curious to know how long the Spitfire lasted in production? It is a superb looking machine - very graceful - but lacks the menace and the muscular bulk of the P-47 Thunderbolt and the Chance Vought F-4U Corsair (the Japanese called it Whistling Death) I believe the Corsair stayed in production until 1952 and even shot down a MIG-15 or two...
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US Rewrite History Again
Look out for upcoming film where US Pilot [Brad Pitt] flying the Spit. wins the Battle of Britain to save the UK...
Whatever next - capture the enigma machine?
Whatever next - capture the enigma machine?