Qantaslink to get more jets
 

Dear all, I am a new member and therefore making a post for the very first time ... so please be gentle:)

The rumour I came accross today was that apparently plans are in place for 2 to 4 more 717's in the early part of next year (that is first quarter).

This information was provided by relevant enough sources however, I also heard from guys getting back from the states (couple of months ago), that there are no more 717's sitting in the desert and as a result new jets are to be acquired from Boeing ... who apparently have a lenghty waiting list.

Has anyone heard anymore regarding this topic ? ? ?

Heard same last week. However the number was 3 within 6 months. Source was high up in Qlink/ airconnex management.

Any idea as for routes?

Canberra remains an ideal 717 destination and with an empty hangar here built for 717 maintenance, I contend that it is only a matter of time.

yes, i believe that is correct, qf announced an order for 6 additional of type around the end of august and they will come on line late this year/early next year i believe.

as for the routes they seem to be employing them on the secondary leisure markets, into cooly, rocky, hobart/launy etc.

it seems a foregone conclusion that when the 146's become history that the 717 will be the sole jet in the qflink fleet.

I beg to differ...
 

The 717 is a good ship but IMHO I think we will see the Embraer 170/175/190 in Oz eventually. With seating from 70-106 seats, the jungle jet family would give QF flexibility that the 106 seat 717 could not give alone. Whatever the case, the flying public will be the winner once the 146 is retired!

AA

yes airspeed, you may well be right and i would tend to agree that the 717 while being a real success may not be totally suited to ALL of qflinks routesespecially those across the top - cns-drw for example, where a smaller aircraft may be a better option.

will be interesting to see what happens regardless.

Folks, further to topend3's post - last week the CFO of QF (who's name escapes me) did the annual Geoff Dixon roadshows (as Geoff was sick ! ! !) and from all reports advised those who attended that the 737-800's will replace the 717 routes and the B146 routes will be replaced by the B717's.

I am not trying to stir the pot with the B146 guys but this is what I have been told and honestly do feel sympathetic to the chaps who may lose their jobs but, hope that they are integrated on the 717's. This may not be a bad result at all since Airconnex/Impulse employees now are entitled to QF staff travel as well as the profit share scheme.

Also Airspeed, there are no 717's with 106 seats. There is a combination between 117/115 old fleet and 102 (6) new fleet. However, as of next month all 717's will be either 117 or 115 seaters. Furthermore, I do agree that with the aforementioned plans ... the 717's may be too big for some of the old 146 routes ! ! !

Times will tell :eek:

I beg to differ.
 

A recent spate of wagers prompts me to offer a carton of Crownies that says the pax appeal of the Jungle Jet will not come close to that of the Fruitbat!

It will in some ways be akin to the KD's introduction of the CRJ, where the difference in cabin size was not all that welcome by the pax.

Well the rumours are there but having my finger on the pulse (excuse the pun), I have seen no evidence of anymore 717's turning up in the near future. If there is then it is maybe in the "possibility stage". If Pulse management know anymore than that, they are certainly keeping pretty quiet about it.:cool:

Just out of curiousity, can anyone tell me what the pay scales are like on the 717 fleet.

Dan K....
Last time I checked the 717 is larger than the 146. They also have 100% fresh air in the cabin, MUCH bigger overhead bins and are a lot newer than the 146s. Oh and they get you there quicker and don't break down as much. The new 717s also have a larger J cabin (not that it's used right now or maybe at all?) 34" pitch in Y, a very large coat cupboard, more toilets per passenger and a higher FA to pax ratio. Oh I I just do the coffee but I seem to remember something about the 717s not costing as much to operate as the 146??? Not to mention that some don't like the oil smell.....

Don't get me wrong I loved the Ansett 142's. They were great to fly on as a pax but the 146's time has come.

topend3....
Why would a 717 be too big for DRW-CNS when QF fill a 734 and a 143 (via GOV) every day?

I have also heard stories about further expansion early next year with the need for more crews. There might be a short wait for new aircraft due to the desert surplies being exhausted. Have heard about new routes into NT WA and QLD. Backspace the pay scales arent too bad which equals a comfy existance.
I am looking forward to getting stuck into those Darwin stubbies VERY shortly.

ditzyboy,

I think you will find Dan was talking about the passenger appeal of ERJ170. The RJ's from Embraer are know as "Junglejets" due to the fact they come from Brazil.

GAFA
 

You beat me to it.

Bet still stands. :D

Mel-Cfs!
 

Well, if this is the case, QF are certainly getting more creative. Will this be another route that gets dropped/reduced after a few months operation? Take a look at the history of "thin" 717 routes:

1) Syd-Mky - dropped (from 3/week)
2) Hba-Ool - dropped (from 2/week)
3) Adl-Ool - reduced from daily to weekend only
4) Syd-Rok - reduced from 4/week to 2/week (only to cycle
through the aircraft that operates the Bne-Rok services!)
5) Syd-Ppp - reduced from 4/week to 2/week (weekend only)
6) Syd-Tsv - reduced from 10/week to daily

Or will these routes be reintroduced???

In fact, the only sector (of the ones introduced when the batch of 6 717s arrived) that remains unchanged is Mel-Mcy (still daily).

Hobay, new routes west and North west will be the order of the day. I can taste that first Darwin stubbie already!!

I am looking forward to the Darwin posting as well dude, but I thinks it too early to confuse my desires what I think is likely to be happening as far as new routes.

If the top end was on the cards, it would have happened by now.........

Pullock Im an optimist. I want bigger beer bottles.

Dan K....
I apologise for my ignorance :) Yes you are probably right. But who cares what the customer thinks? QF don't! :)

Bring on any trip with a slip in DRW! I am so over LST and NTL trips!

Well, if QF are going to get more 717s, they won't come from the ex-TWA/AA batch. All the remaining stored aircraft in that batch have been spoken for by AirTran.

Can someone go way over the top and lay this out fully. Are we talking DRW-GOV-CNS, PER-AYQ/ASP-CNS as well as PER-KGI/KTA/PHE/BME/PBO/ZNE etc. What about other "connectors" like MEL-ASP or BNE-ASP. What about Intra-QLD. BNE-HTI,PPP,TSV? Will ROK,MKY be all 717 or still some 146? What about the services I mentioned in my last post that have been dropped? Was this due to lack of aircraft or lack of passengers? Someone must know!!!

:rolleyes:

also new member

reading prune for a long time now. thought i might jump in and stir the pot a bit. absolutely a personal perspective.

also heard rumours of 4 new 717's.

thoughts of probable short term future (discounting another entrant) go like this.

146's will be phased out as leases expire. too old and unreliable though have done a sterling job and undoubtably contributed to QF's dispatch of an.

probable closure of 146 east coast bases as lease's expire (RK today, MK jan, BN end 2003 ? CB see earlier post this topic)

introduction of new regional jets will see end of 717's in OZ (not definite but view it from an accountant's perspective)

lowest bidder for regional QF operation will see even lower terms and conditions for the jungle jet drivers (what will your family's lifestyle be on 90k?)

njs or impulse will match terms to stay in the job and impulse keeps east coast, njs to west and top end.

suits qf to keep 2 companies running against each other to drive costs to absolute minimums. great for the shareholders. unfortunately the accountants seem to have forgotten about the safety aspect of flight operations.

Ansett kept us all honest and in a job. Now with traditional early decade downturn the boot is on managements collective feet and NO ONE is invulnerable.

PREDICTION-once regional bottom line is determined mainline drivers are next to be targeted.

SOLUTION-as professionals we will remain easy game until we achieve viable and united representation.

Don't count on those big stubbies yet Douglas, 146 is still cost effective for the accountants and still enjoys excellent public appeal. 4 still outguns 2 in my experience.

As for the future of the 146 crew's, I can't see an offer of integration into any existing QF structure (case in point the execution of Southerns), but I can see an addition to the expanding pool of excellent highly qualified and experienced drivers for any third airline start up.

Impulse may have the ear of the big bosses in QF at the moment but airlink chief executives are only as good as the last profit/loss result.

Was lucky enough to get up close and personal with the Embraer 170 after it did Farnborough.

As for pax appeal, it has bucket loads. The rest of it's not bad either. Should be a very successful aeroplane.

----

Shaker One

Just heard the Jungle Jet has been canned. This looks very much like more 717s to me.

The Baron

Has the Jungle Jet been officially canned or is it just another rumour?

GB

Too Jaded, is that a jealous note I detect?

I flew on a 717 the other day........good flight and a nice aircraft.
A question to those that fly it, what range (nil wind) would the 717 have with a full load of pax and say about 3 tons of freight?
Are the 717s that Qantaslink have HGW aircraft?
Thanks.

Perhaps, toojaded, but you can't compare apples and oranges. Regional Jets, no matter how cost effective cannot completely replace 717s, just like 717s cannot completely replace 146s.

717s seat 115-117.
146s seat up to 84 or so.
RJs of any variety seat no more than about 60-70 (up to 80?).

An accountant looking at replacing 717s with regional jets on a one for one basis would lose anywhere between 35 and 50 seats per flight and in the language of any financial practitioner, this makes no sense.

A more likely outcome is the ultimate retirement of the 146 fleet, a gradual increase in 717 numbers up to a critical mass of perhaps 20-30 (maybe more, you never know ;) ) and the introduction of a fleet of regional jets for routes which would justify them. Dash-8s remain largely unaffected, perhaps with a small increase in fleet size.

Bear in mind too that a 717 is not too much smaller than a 733.

My personal opinion, for what it is worth.

Allegedly.

MoFo
 

The Embraer 170/175/190/195 family, fondly refered to as The Jungle Jet is designed for 70 to 110 pax. At the high end similar to a 717 but much lighter!

The 146s as configured by NJS carry 64/76/87 at 2+3 seating plus a few business seats. I think European operators of the 146 get up to 115 into a 146-300/RJ100 using 3+3 seating.

I think the 717 is too heavy and large to be considered the RJ replacement.

If the 2-4 717s are to be in operation by first quarter next year, then that only leaves 150 days at the most from now until they have to be carrying passengers. I know the 73Hs took less than 100 days, but the 717s are new build, and then I think that given there has yet to be an announcement reagarding an order, that they won't be operational until after the first quarter 2003.

:p

Interesting concept Hobay. Not too far of the mark I think!

All the senior Impulse pilots have spoken to say no more 717's in the near future. Qantas have plans to relocate the current 717's onto new routes with the current 717's replaced by 737's ie SY - MC will once again return to 737's.

Havent actually seen one,but doesnt the latest QF prospectus state that the domestic and regional fleets are status quo(give or take 1 or 2 ) until 2005?:cool:

FL CH,

This rumor of 737s taking over the 717 routes, do you have any idea from when this will happen, and any idea of more routes (other than SY-MC) specifically? With the all economy 767s also doing holiday routes soon, then there seems to be a lot of holiday capacity, with the 767s, these rumored 737s (are they -800s or classics?) as well as the 717s!
:confused:

This rumour has gone quite. So whats the latest? How long does it take to get a 717 fom the order stage to in the country?

Yep heard from link Lame in Bne 10 more 717s to come next yr.
:p

Where is the 717 heavy maintenance going? Newcastle?

More 717s is very wishfull thinking. I remind you of the R in PPRuNe! ;)

While we are on the subject of rumors. I heard that the Impulse Ginger Beers are taking over some of the QF737- 300 turn around shortly. And said Ginger Beers expect Impulse Tech and Cabin crews to be next on these aircraft.

This rumour of Impulse 737s is an interesting one. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Mel-Ool and Syd-Ool schedules showed some flights operated by 737s, but claimed to be operated by Impulse Airlines. This has since been fixed up, but maybe it is an indication that it will happen eventually???
This rumour would fit in with the other rumour about 737s taking over the current 717 routes, and the 717s going on to new routes.
;)