Qantas SH EBA negotiations
 

G’day all!

what’s everyone’s thoughts on where negotiations are at?

I understand not a lot of info is forthcoming from AIPA. Just generalisations for the time being until an AIP is formalised.

what do line pilots want to see this time around?

personally I’d love to see some better roster protections concerning paxing credits. Maybe a min daily rate like LH. Also a formalised RIN to protect pilots when 737 is eventually gone.

DT

Did you not attend any of the AIPA meets in the last month?

A lot of information was given. It’s put my mind at ease despite the official quietness so far via official comms.

Not the time nor the place. Call AIPA if you are genuine.

I’m after 40% after 15years of going backwards and being manipulated by management.
also the lack of recognition of being stood down for years should be addressed.
MDC like LH and full paxing credits are a must.
Staff travel has become a disgrace also. We need a yearly confirmed business for family.
we spend most of our lives away from our family, would be nice to take them on a yearly trip to make up for the time away.
If not I’ll be hoping for PIA.
enough is enough. No more being dictated to by bean counters and MBA morons.

That is funny

I reckon the Qantas SH EBA negotiations will be a lot of things, but funny won't be one of them.

great. Another MBA muppet with nothing to offer the world but an opinion.
bye bye

and why not 40% exactly? Multiple years of pay freezes to help the company. Management all then turn around and give themselves massive rises after not doing their jobs.
Trash the place and still take a record package.
why not 40? That would literally catch us up to where we were 15 years ago.
plenty of airlines paid pilots huge bonuses once stood back up. Some over 8 months pay.
not a $500 useless voucher (slap in the face)

LOL Base pay for an F/O should be 300k. And 550k if Based in Sydney or Melbourne and around 950k for Captain... thats a realistic figure.

Ignore the trolls or this one will be shut down too.

As I posted in the NAA thread, we are hundreds of thousands short of where we should be based on the amount pilots were paid in the late 80’s and adjusted for inflation. I wouldn’t consider the war to be over until Captains are on well North of $500,000 with lifestyle protections enshrined in the agreement. Plus a ‘thank you for sticking with us’ bonus similar to that which we’ve seen from overseas operators, something like 9 months pay.

Not sure if you are referring to me as being a troll. I may sound like a troll with my Absurd rhetoric. But I am no troll, everything I have mentioned is what I believe. It may sound insane the figures I put out there. But we live in absurd times where the political and corporate elite think it is reasonable to erode all of our living standards while they continually get larger and larger salaries and tax breaks. I am a pro capitalist but what is unfolding is not capitalism. I am no troll, absurd times require absurd responses. We are all in this situation, because no one has the balls beside a select few like myself who stick our necks out. And if things don't change for the better, you will all know who I am within the next decade when 2 airline pilots decide to start a political party. With current inflation and housing costs, 950k to 1m for a 737 capt is not unreasonable for a pilot living in Sydney. What is unreasonable is what the political and corporate elite have unleashed on the middle class and the poor. I will not be standing for it much longer and neither should anyone else. I am no troll.

You're not a troll, I definitely wasn’t referring to you. We are very much aligned, I don’t want the ‘same old’ corporate BS either, if you get my drift 😉.

Haha for a mill I'll do the reserves for zip like now


But remember boys and girls: pay for reserve IS NOT A PAY RISE

It’s not funny. It’s hilarious.

Hahaha

We are not in America.

These wizards will be tripping over themselves to sign off on a one off 5k pre tax payment, and the prospect of a shiny 321.

Well, well, here we go again. No spine, no scope, no reserve pay, no protection, a 20 year upgrade, and another 5 years hearing them whine about the group pilots they were complicit in creating.

Wait until they throw the “an opportunity to operate future tranches of A220s”… blokes will be running to vote yes!

They would be wise to have a quick chat to the guys who took the ‘opportunity’ to operate the A220. Some are opting to stay in the 717 until it is fully phased out as the EA is appalling and the aircraft isn’t that crash hot either.

To answer the OP……money. in the pocket. Sure, fix up the things that need to be fixed, theyre on top of the money. No money, no deal. I wont listen to someone trying to sell me a payrise under pay for reserve, av callouts etc. its hourly rate. Compounding, money. If you’re not going to give money, then ll take more time off. For the same money. More X days guaranteed.

try tell me you can’t afford it after the boards payrise and share buybacks. I think youll find theres appetite for a fight if need be. Based on what’s out there so far, while appreciative of the negotiating teams work, it’s nowhere near acceptable. Add money, and it’s getting there.

I do understand AIPA have been hamstrung in terms of the legislative environment they have negotiated under in previous years but I think this is a deciding year for myself and others if we can’t even manage to attain a pay rise which keeps up with inflation.

- $400 million in share buybacks
- the board scoring 5-8% payrises, executive bonuses out the nose along with gifting Alan Joyce $125 million over his stint with a $24 million parting gift in a year we couldn’t even manage to dispatch half the 737 fleet with less than 40 MEL’s and hold items, we’re leasing widebodies to keep our patchwork ‘LH operation’ on the road and his decisions have left QF facing millions in fines and lost revenue for the 1700 ground staff.
- Most techies have lost over 6 figures worth of income during COVID and some of our new joiners suffered even worse to be met by a barely liveable B scale

Roster protections are the cream but if there is no inflationary pay increases over the 4 years it’ll be a flat out no - the words ‘wage policy’ shouldn’t be allowed to leave the mouth of any company negotiator without the above thrown straight back in their face.

It’s not often QF SH, LH, Virgin and even the team at Airservices are negotiating at a similar time with the leverage we’re offered today - perhaps it’s time the industry says enough so we can leave the industry better than we found it for those behind us.

If you genuinely think that a 40% payrise is achievable then that really is funny stuff. Delusional…..but still funny. We are all just employees. Nothing more nothing less. Nobody else is getting a 40% rise so why should we ? Time to be realistic and stop with the day dreaming. It’s just how it is. Same old situation EBA after EBA.

so what, should we ask for 8% while being told we’re getting a pay freeze.
play their stupid games back and start at 40. Give reasons (Covid, previous pay freezes, inflation, boards greed etc). Why them and not us?
We’re stupid if we don’t go hard now. Claw back years of manipulation. Why not?
are you that short sighted?

‘Unfortunately I think you are probably correct , however does that mean all and sundry should just roll over and accept the crumbs thrown to them by the bosses while their collective snouts are firmly in the trough?

Not short sighted. Just seen it all before. Go hard if you want but in the end it won’t amount to anything substantial. Unfortunately this is the new world we live in and it’s not confined to aviation.

Throw in a unicorn too. *not going to lie, I'd like to see full paxing credits too. If I'm at work I'm still away from my family.

Agree - this should be a no brainer. If you’re in uniform, you should be being paid. Also incentivises the company to build more efficient patterns.

Not sure, but I suspect the rumoured DPC60 will go a long way to fixing this problem.

Agree that full credits for paxing would be simpler. Would need to see some samples of how this will look overall. DPC60 also fixes the sitting around somewhere on a weekend for 2.5 hrs on a transit not getting paid. Again would need to see some numbers but it has to be an improvement. It may be enough on its own to fix both of these issues.

The negotiating team would have more info on how this would look I guess if you approach one of them.

no other industry would accept half credits to be at work. None

I get it. It’s crap. It’s been one of my gripes for years.

I don’t know how the numbers work but I’m just saying that a 60% duty credit MAY (not will, may) be enough to fix both the paxing issue and the not getting paid on a transit issue.

AIPA is hopefully running the numbers to see how it works out.

Back of the envelope, a pax SYD-MEL to operate the return with a 1 hr transit is worth 2.85 hrs as opposed to the current 2.13. That’s close enough to the 3 hours to operate both ways it shouldn’t cause too much angst.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....95f0ce103.jpeg

I think that is fallacious reasoning. It appears to be limiting the time frame that examples are taken from to about 35 years and then assuming that a pattern has to continue. I’m not convinced that the pattern will continue indefinitely. It hasn’t in some parts of the world so that proves it can be disrupted under certain circumstances.
In 2010 the papers had articles about US Airline pilots earning very low salaries and qualifying for food stamps. In 2023 the same papers were reporting on large sign on bonuses and 50% pay hikes.
​​​​​​​Sometimes things change.

I’d suggest when the deal comes out that every SH pilot apply the fixes to their last 6 rosters and see what the effect would be.

plus, if things that were free or low cost, will now cost more, then expect them to change the way they utilise R and AVto minimise cost. Boom. There goes the ‘payrise’

43% of network pilots were totally cool with working at half pay for overtime before the company tripped over their own dick and pissed them off enough to sway more to vote no

I don’t know if ‘totally cool’ quite describes it so much as ‘willing to tolerate it to get back pay while waiting for the recruitment process to finish at their next job’. I don’t support them there but I don’t see it the same as rolling over.

Is there any chance of even just asking for the wage freeze back? We took 3% to help out while things were in the red, now they’re not.
Even if it was pencil whipped for the frozen years pay so they can’t cry inflation or something, imagine how much good faith that would show.

Imagine how appreciated everyone would feel.
Imagine how good of a PR story it would be.

So screw over your peers for a quick payout before you move somewhere else?

Sound like great pilots to work with. Bet they shout the coffee too.

They are paying for the increase in the Super Guarantee using the wage freeze.

Got nothing on the pilots that gifted the company all these B scales over the years.

AFAP fees can now finally be taken from payroll. Refreshing to see negotiators won’t sign NDAs. Also given guarantees they won’t join management within 5 years, or take training roles within 3.
AIPA could learn a lot from these guys/girls. Open frank negotiation on members behalf. No secret deals and games. They LISTEN to their membership for direction. Network are showing us the way (hopefully).
Latest news letter is refreshing as always. Real data and no BS. A hint at what we can expect and aim for.
Well done to these volunteers.

Yeah but what’s with the 8.36% + 5%?
Talk about setting the bar low.

But I do agree, much better correspondence than the secretive AIPA who seem to be doing nothing.

Don't forget transition_alt the rest of the pay rises over the life of the deal from the AFAP's log of claims from their website:

2. Remuneration - Higher base salary / guaranteed earnings
Our claim for salary includes:

• An immediate 8.36% increase to make up for the 2022, 2023 shortfall when compared to CPI.
• An Additional 5% pay increase in line with industry movements.
• Increases over the life of agreement in line with forecast CPI of:
• 2024: 4%
• 2025: 4%
• 2026: 3%
• 2027: 3%

Have Shorthaul Pilots already had their 2 year pay freeze IAW with the Qantas wage policy?