Good deals?

You really are management.

They has the threat of tens of thousands in back pay being taken off them as a threat. The only big pay rises they got were things along the lines of, bottom yr1 FOs needed a significant pay rise to meet the award, therefore as FOs earns % of Captain wages, the captains went up proportionally.

If money’s not important, why is management so keen to keep so much of it?

I tried going to the bank with my love of aviation and a thank you letter from management for extending and making a particularly lovely PA.

Weirdly, they didn’t give a sh!t.

I’m an employee, a number, a warm backside in a seat at pushback. “They” have made that clear.

I trade my time for their money. The aim is simply to give as little as possible of the first while maximising the second.

The clowns do not care!

Sorry that’s not what my conversations with various employees who’ve indicated they’re happy with the deals on offer and voted on them without feeling under duress. The most surprising for me was the ALAEA. We all know they’re quite militant, and they had some minor behind the scenes PIA going, but they’ve signed off on a deal they’re seemingly quite happy with without resorting to stronger PIA.

There really has been a change in the landscape in the last 12 months.

That’s not correct.

• EFA pilots got a 5% all purpose allowance added to their pay which has no conditions and is perpetual. Equivalent to two missed 2.5% pay rises, bearing in mind the wage policy was 2% p/a at the time.
• Jetstar got a 6% additional pay rise for all pilots as some would have fallen below the Award and not been BOOT compliant.
• ​​​​​​​Network haven’t signed a new EA yet, nor LH or SH.

So it doesn’t look like Qantas is having much luck forcing their ridiculous wages policy on Group pilots thus far.

Correct, like an evenly matched tug of war - not one where one side picks up all the slack while the other basks in the reward :=

Probably the most foreign concept to us Australians, is the notion of EA's based on CPI (+) adjustments. The C-Suite is fully aware of this and has for decades effectively used it to depress wages for the benefit of executives and shareholders alike.

YoY CPI is backward looking and thus a figure of 7.8% means that over the last 12 months you were already out of pocket by 7.8%. Let's assume you get a CPI based EA adjustment at 7.8%, that effectively means you are now where you should've been averaging for the previous 12 months, not the next... The next YoY CPI once again tells you where you fell short and thus allows for a readjustment to the mean. Even when EA's are based on YoY CPI adjustments, you are only playing catch-up and not moving ahead.

Now imagine CPI at 7.8% et al with 0% and then <0.5CPI adjustments stretched over multiple years = Financial (read lifestyle) suicide :\

Ensuring Fairness and Economic Stability: The Case for Wages to At Least Match Year-on-Year CPI
In an ever-changing economic landscape, it becomes crucial to maintain the financial well-being of workers and sustain a healthy economy. One approach that promotes fairness and stability is to ensure that wage increases at least match the year-on-year Consumer Price Index (CPI). By aligning wage adjustments with the rate of inflation, this practice safeguards workers' purchasing power and contributes to overall economic prosperity.

Preserving Purchasing Power: Wage increases that fall short of the CPI erode the purchasing power of workers over time. When the cost of living rises, stagnant wages put an increasing burden on individuals and their families. Basic necessities become more expensive, making it challenging to maintain the same standard of living. By linking wage increases to the CPI, employers acknowledge the importance of preserving the real value of wages, allowing employees to afford essential goods and services without undue financial strain.

Ensuring Economic Equity: A just society strives for equitable outcomes, where all individuals have the opportunity to thrive. Wage increases tied to the CPI contribute to this goal by preventing income disparities from widening due to inflation. When wages fail to keep up with rising prices, workers are disproportionately affected. By guaranteeing that wage increases at least match the CPI, society can mitigate the risk of deepening income inequality, fostering a more balanced and inclusive economic environment.

Sustaining Consumer Demand: The relationship between wages and consumer demand is vital for a thriving economy. When workers' incomes remain stagnant while prices increase, their ability to consume goods and services diminishes. This scenario could result in decreased demand, leading to adverse effects on businesses, employment rates, and economic growth. By ensuring that wage increases reflect the CPI, businesses can count on a reliable customer base, stimulating economic activity and maintaining a stable market.

Supporting Long-Term Planning: Consistency and predictability are essential for individuals and businesses when planning for the future. Linking wage increases to the CPI provides a clear framework for both employers and employees. It enables workers to anticipate and budget for rising living costs, empowering them to make informed financial decisions. Employers can also better plan their labor costs, avoiding abrupt adjustments that could disrupt business operations. This stability enhances productivity and fosters an environment conducive to sustained economic growth.

Conclusion: Matching wage increases with the year-on-year CPI is a prudent approach to ensure fairness, economic stability, and sustainable growth. By protecting workers' purchasing power, promoting economic equity, sustaining consumer demand, and supporting long-term planning, this practice creates a foundation for a more resilient and prosperous society. Recognizing the importance of aligning wage adjustments with the CPI enables us to safeguard the well-being of individuals, foster a thriving economy, and work towards a more equitable future.

It is time to rethink the game theory here...

Correct. They know exactly what they're doing. They are running us as close to the bone as they can get away with - while awarding themselves huge bonuses and enormous pay packets. And patting each other on the back while regaling each other with their latest wheezes and triumphs, down at the exclusive millionaire's club, or in the marina.

And they really, truly don't care if individuals such as you or I are fed up, or if we resign. There is a long queue of hopefuls outside the door, each of whom has already paid for their own expensive training and type rating.

Looks like we have a winner for company to avoid at all costs then.

From what I’ve been told NJS Pilots voted up an EA with significantly worse conditions then what they had and will be operating an aircraft 20% bigger then what they currently operate. And for absolutely NO pay increase! How embarrassing!

ALAEA, yes. Not the subsid pilots.

Not sexist. Stating a fact.

First off, credit to all who are battling to get better conditions. Problem is, management knows you won’t pack up and leave the profession. They’re confident that they can pay you even less and you’ll accept it because of your desire for the prestige of sitting in the front of a shiny jet.

All the employers have to do is be just competitive enough to make it not worth your while to jump ship to another airline and to this end they are aided by the seniority system. A two edged sword.

I was horrified to discover in another thread that a J42 F/O was paid $55K. How can anyone with a family live on that? A thousand bucks a week, before tax and rent for a two bedroom flat is what $600 a week?

Self evidently very few choose to become a pilot for the money.

No one aims to be a J42FO or SAAB FO for more than a few years, same as instructing. While it would be nice for those low end jobs to be family freindly, the truth is they are now aimed at young, single people entering the industry. A prospective new pilot looks at what they could earn as a Captain on a jet for the large airlines and such. US airline job rates are getting good pay because you MUST have experience by law now, and that experience requirement means airlines have to compete for even entry level FOs.

I hear ya and think you’re probably right overall. However, at 44 years old with no mortgage and starting to feel the effects of shift work, I am contemplating leaving the industry with 8 years narrow body command under my belt. I also know a few much more experienced Captains with probably 7 or 8 years of productive flying left in them that are thinking the same way. I think Covid made those of us in the second half of a career put more focus/ weight on our health and free time, it also made some of us realise that the heavy lifting of becoming financially independent has mostly been done and we could probably back off the income a bit and still pursue the travel and pass times we enjoy while avoiding the negative effects of shift work.
The sense I get is that the industry in Australia could probably bump along running the same schedules as they do today but any plans for an increase to that will probably be thwarted by lack of crew.
​​​​​​​100% correct.

Many middle aged to older crew are feeling that way now, especially with the push for more money in exchange for more work. If you are smart with your money even on very low rates of pay you can be financially secure by your 40s, just don't waste money on cars and holidays, don't have kids, or at least don't fall fr the trap that kids need the best of everything. If they want long term employees like the old days they need to pay more money and reduce workload. That's just what airlines face now. It's more likely that the industry will recede to fit what they want to pay for pilots rather than expand and pay more, just the accountants mentality running large corporations these days.

This appears to be a common theme amongst pilots I talk to about it. If I was in management I would be concerned about the change of attitude because noone even contemplated it prior to Covid. If an airline was hit with an unexpected wave of resignations of people all around a similar age it could be devastating as you won't be replacing pilots quickly in Australia anymore.

Have a think about when the timing of that vote was taken, what has changed since and why the EAs negotiated subsequently have been better?

The last NJS vote may have been the last time management in this country could get away with such shenanigans for a while.

When the next EBA comes around the pilots will hold fresh, unbonded A220 endorsements which the operation will be completely reliant on, in a climate where other countries are offering both visas and big incentives to fly that aircraft type. Qantas/NJS will be reckless if they don’t throw a significantly improved EBA at the pilots before the aircraft arrives.

By the next EBA we will be "close to a recession and you will have to take a pay freeze, or the next egomaniac CEO won't make KPIs and $1billion in bonuses". I mean seriously all I've seen is "next EBA" for over 20 years. TBH Mainline has tried and been nobbled at the ankles, as management know nobody will stand behind them push come to shove, lock them out show them who's boss, the rest of the subsidiaries are good boys, keep flying gents, here's some new jets on crumbs for your efforts, but remember what we did to your betters next EBA, hey.

Could be the reason why the incoming CEO has already moved to combine HR and IR, so as to reign in the hired guns that are scaring off the troops and future recruits...

QANTAS GROUP ANNOUNCES SENIOR MANAGEMENT CHANGES

Creation of a dedicated Chief People Officer – this role will bring together human resources and industrial relations functions, which are currently split. This comes as the Group expects to create 8,500 new jobs in Australia within the next decade and ramps up training as it takes delivery of new aircraft. An executive search process is underway to fill this role.

The Johannesburg refueler recons that hours before the recent QLink foreign recruit interviews were due to start in JNB, there were still vacant slots with calls going out to whoever wanted to join the show. Apparently other subsidiaries are also averaging sub 50% show rates on interview days...:ouch:

If South Africans aren’t interested then they have officially found the bottom .