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-   -   ATC, RFF, WTF? (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/649927-atc-rff-wtf.html)

Icarus2001 1st Dec 2022 00:48


From Neville's SMH article earlier-
CASA could not say whether airlines could safely or legally operate during the strike.“We are currently working with all relevant parties to understand the impacts of this announcement,” a CASA spokesman said.

So the regulator doesn't know the rules they wrote?
I did notice that. Sweet pickle CASA are in. Either it is legal or it is not. Either answer begs more questions.

Lead Balloon 1st Dec 2022 01:28

You've gotta love the spin out of Airservices' Dominique Lamb:

For Airservices Australia, those planes will be able to take off during that period of time and we will do everything that we can do to minimise disruption for all of our travellers.

We understand that they will be able to operate across the sector at that time and we know that they will still be able to take off.
Of course the aircraft will be "able to" take off. And they'll be "able to" land. Whether there's no added legal risk for the operators in doing so is a related but very different question.

Icarus2001 1st Dec 2022 08:11


We understand that they will be able to operate across the sector at that time and we know that they will still be able to take off.
Yes the laws of physics have not changed. Seriously are they saying no RFFS is needed for take offs?

Where is our state of the art media asking awkward questions?

​​​​​​​Bueller?

tossbag 1st Dec 2022 11:57

So Airservices are saying that, no worries, you'll be right to take off if the guardians of the runways, taxyways and fat bastards having heart attacks in the terminal are stopping work. That means that Airservices couldn't give a **** if they're there or not? mmmm, guardians of the runways, taxyways etc......you might have to be scared and cowed like pilots and accept a pay freeze to keep your jobs.

Lead Balloon 1st Dec 2022 19:35

More comedy gold from Airservices' Ms Lamb:

There’s a whole raft of things that Air Services Australia will put in place to ensure that people can still operate and fly around our country in a safe manner.

C441 1st Dec 2022 20:31

Many, many years ago I used to play indoor cricket with a suburban firie based close to Sydney airport. At the time he said it was not unusual to be put on 'standby' for dispatch to the airport if an aircraft had reported difficulties. He also added that part of their training at the time was aviation incident related although not terribly specific. I wonder if non-aviation fire services may be deployed or made more readily available in some locations.

43Inches 1st Dec 2022 23:05


Many, many years ago I used to play indoor cricket with a suburban firie based close to Sydney airport. At the time he said it was not unusual to be put on 'standby' for dispatch to the airport if an aircraft had reported difficulties. He also added that part of their training at the time was aviation incident related although not terribly specific. I wonder if non-aviation fire services may be deployed or made more readily available in some locations.
I do recall that local firestations around airports that may have to deal with aircraft are given extra training in such. That's the local fire stations not airport based RFF which would specialise entirely in aviation based fire fighting. Country firestations away from major airports probably don't train at all for aviation style rescue, probably just arrive and dump retardant on the wreck until its out and save anyone in the area that's still moving. I had a few interactions with RFF from local stations that got themselves into some dangerous positions while assisting, had to tell them to move away from situations they were not aware of.

keepemseperated 2nd Dec 2022 02:08

Unless things have changed in the last couple of years, only those effected by the change need to be directly notified i.e. Cat 10 aircraft (B748 & A380). I can only assume that the ATC is either misinformed or providing some support to their firefighting brothers/sisters.

10JQKA 2nd Dec 2022 09:45

Firefighters PIA called off under a new 1 yr 4.9% Enterprise Agreement.

SHVC 2nd Dec 2022 23:00

So, it was about money and not staffing.

dr dre 3rd Dec 2022 01:00


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11341346)
So, it was about money and not staffing.

No mention of pay in this article.

It looks as if Airservices have agreed to the Union’s main claim to increase staffing levels to minimum international standards.

10JQKA 3rd Dec 2022 02:50

From "The Guardian" yesterday......



At the time, the union said it was protesting safety concerns arising from low staffing levels, following months of negotiations over a new enterprise deal. The union had mentioned these safety concerns, and demands for minimum staffing level clauses.

However in an Airservices Australia statement released on Friday afternoon, only new pay details from the in-principle deal were mentioned. Workers will receive a 4.9% salary increase, the statement said.

Airservices Australia chief executive, Jason Harfield, said:

“Airservices is pleased to have reached this in-principle agreement with the UFUAV, which puts an end to proposed industrial action next week. This new agreement provides certainty for our ARFFs workforce, airlines and the travelling public. We commend all involved in reaching this new agreement.”

Guardian Australia contacted the United Firefighters Union Aviation branch for comment.

le Pingouin 3rd Dec 2022 04:31

Of course Airservices are saying that as they won't own up to anything they're responsible for causing.

Lead Balloon 3rd Dec 2022 05:23

It must be 'inspiring' working for an organisation whose executive treats its operational staff - e.g. air traffic controllers and fire fighters - with such contempt by painting operational staff as acting only in their self interest. I'm sure the executives are working for free, because their dedication and contribution to the interests of the safety of air navigation is all the reward they need.

atcnews 3rd Dec 2022 06:07

Reviewing the union update it appears a minimum staffing clause has been included.


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