Pilot Shortage (Down Under)
While working to form the United Nations after WWII, Winston Churchill famously said "Never let a good crisis go to waste".
This very practise became the fallback position during the pandemic, with a multitude of examples abound. While C-Suiters were, and still are, laughing all the way from the stock market to their riverside mansions, they were and still are hellbent on devaluing the pilot profession and subsequent careers of the same skilled workforce they would (again) need in the future. The notion of a real or perceived pilot shortage ebbs and flows throughout various cycles of the world economy. Yet similar to what happened ex 9/11, there is now a real possibility that in the near future, significantly sized airframes could go un-crewed. There might not yet be a full blown pilot shortage (in Australia), but there is already signs of a Shortage of (experienced) Pilots willing to Work for the Conditions on Offer. Combine this with certain operators declaring economic and financial war on their pilot groups and you will start seeing the cracks appear - experienced pilots can and will start leaving for better conditions and mutual respect, while the same financial warmongering operators will start vacuuming lower experienced pilots into their ranks. At first, it will all seem benign, but then...as the floodgates open, the influx of 'imported' pilots will cement these conditions (or lack thereof) as the new normal, with the profession being worse off for it in the long run - C-Suite Mission Accomplished. The Cracks are Here: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....62212b8b60.png ...and another operator Here: https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....53245a4a0e.png |
Since when has AirNorth been using SAABs? or is this a replacement for the Braz or some other dablings...
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11307084)
Since when has AirNorth been using SAABs? or is this a replacement for the Braz or some other dablings...
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While there are cracks showinga nd definitely indicators that crew are starting to be valued my biggest indicator will be when the majors offer fully paid cadetships for the majority of entrants. Until then they are still seeing enough workforce generated from the lower levels to fill seats.
A lot of hype of shortages is also a tool to get more self funded kids into flying schools, "look we're desperate, pay for it and you will have a job!". Then you finish and find you are on a waiting list at the bottom end. Sadly I don't see too much shortage a a boon for pilots, maybe short term, but once the airlines really kick into gear with their own full scale programs GA will shrivel further and the conditions of training will probably have a noose attached, eg China, where you are bonded for life. The MPL sorta does that as well, with licences linked to particular airlines training programs rather than free to use outside those organisations. The screen I was using made the two different ads look like one, hence my confusion at the type.... |
What are Saab 340 drivers being paid in Oz?
There’s probably a lot of ex-long haul guys out there who have made enough to retire and would like to fly mainly front of the clock, same time zone and sectors of less than an hour. If I hadn’t had the lens replacement surgery which precludes a Class 1 medical, I’d quite like the relaxed lifestyle. |
Originally Posted by lucille
(Post 11307180)
What are Saab 340 drivers being paid in Oz?
There’s probably a lot of ex-long haul guys out there who have made enough to retire and would like to fly mainly front of the clock, same time zone and sectors of less than an hour. If I hadn’t had the lens replacement surgery which precludes a Class 1 medical, I’d quite like the relaxed lifestyle. |
The cracks have already well and truely formed.
As an example, the young ones who enter this QF school and do their program will be offered the jobs with ridiculous conditions they are super excited about, nice big shiny plane. The jobs we all won’t stand for because we want to be paid and given what we deserve. Then give it a year or two too wear off, until the “what the hell was I thinking” thought comes around, when they can’t afford too live because the EBA they signed up too isn’t up to date with the current CPI. And the union and gov are useless too do anything about it, or they don’t wish too do anything about it because of how weak they are. Continue grabbing some pilots from overseas to work here for the ridiculous conditions as well; beautiful for the airlines they’re laughin’. The magic of aviation and working in it is gone. One might hope that all these Australians leaving and a perceived shortage might see a change. I don’t want to say it but I think the above answers it. One can hope for a short while. |
Originally Posted by RealSatoshi
(Post 11307060)
People I know who work for both Rex and Link Airways on the Saab have received contact via LinkedIn from Rishworth Aviation for this posting. Either it’s not those airlines, or Rishworth are contacting people about the job they already have. |
Originally Posted by WannaBeBiggles
(Post 11307304)
Relaxed lifestyle for a regional TP captain. That joke made my day :}
Sleep in your own bed every night and actually get sleep! Luxury, Mostly day time flying in mostly benign weather. Luxury. Almost zero back of the clock flying. No jet lag with its attendant negative health effects. Luxury. |
Originally Posted by lucille
(Post 11307704)
Apart from the admittedly crap salary, what’s not to like?
Sleep in your own bed every night and actually get sleep! Luxury, Mostly day time flying in mostly benign weather. Luxury. Almost zero back of the clock flying. No jet lag with its attendant negative health effects. Luxury. |
Pilot Shortage (Down Under) |
Originally Posted by lucille
(Post 11307704)
Apart from the admittedly crap salary, what’s not to like?
Sleep in your own bed every night and actually get sleep! Luxury, Mostly day time flying in mostly benign weather. Luxury. Almost zero back of the clock flying. No jet lag with its attendant negative health effects. Luxury. Or the 4+ sector days, going up and down constantly, dodging weather, spending hours in a ****ty regional airport "terminal" waiting a turn because the aircraft doesn't have an APU. Not to mention the light aircraft you might be dodging in and out of the uncontrolled airports you'll be operating in to. Or maybe the hotels (or motel..) for the overnight not being even close to what someone who flew international being used to. (When the Gove Walkabout all of a sudden passes for luxury compared to some of the other places you've had to overnight) :} Not to mention the lovely donga you might get to kick back in while doing a day wait at a mine site. The benign weather comment makes me think you've never flown around Darwin or the Cape during the wet season.... By all means have a crack, but come back to me about the luxurious life of a turboprop skipper after you've spent some time doing the job. |
At first, it will all seem benign, but then...as the floodgates open, the influx of 'imported' pilots will cement these conditions (or lack thereof) as the new normal, with the profession being worse off for it in the long run - C-Suite Mission Accomplished. If you believe the reports of hundreds of Australian pilots finding jobs with Atlas, National, Kalitta et al you will also appreciate the irony. North American pilots are lamenting that the E3 'floodgates' are now open, and their T&C are being cemented in by foreign nationals. Don't get me wrong I think there are some great opportunities worldwide which should be taken advantage of, but Australian pilots cannot expect a one-way street as far as job opportunities are concerned. Not in the last 44 years of my career have I seen this fabled pilot shortage. But then again if you stay here long enough you see all kinds of ****. |
When the Gove Walkabout all of a sudden passes for luxury compared to some of the other places you've had to overnight :} |
Wanna be Biggles
so was it not like that when you joined, or did you just not do research as to whether the job was right for you before taking it? |
I've done the turboprop life, it's relatively easy, definitely not luxurious. Weather in Australia is benign mostly would struggle to log 3 hours actual IF in a month if you are smart you just fly over, under or around the weather. The occasional nasty trough can linger and make a few days a year tiresome and the multiple sectors keeps the brain active. Single overnights and day shifts make it pretty cruisy, with most of my old shifts around 6-7 hours duty a day. Pay was always just enough, nothing special, could afford a decent house, but not a beachfront mansion. Not going to even entertain spending over $10k a term on kids education, that's just nuts and trying to put your kids in schools where the rich and famous can only afford, not sure why bother. Courses for Horses really, lots of people enjoy flying TPs for regionals and have done it a long time, the majority got into aviation to fly jets and will never be comfortable in a TP, others will never be happy because the perfect aviation job just does not exist for them.
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Originally Posted by WannaBeBiggles
(Post 11307911)
The benign weather comment makes me think you've never flown around Darwin or the Cape during the wet season.... . No one does pissing contests and cheap shots better than Aussie pilots. It’s no wonder we’re so unpopular around the world. AustraNauts they call us! I’m sure the Crab Theory was developed by someone who studied Aussie pilots. The rest of your post was reasoned and meaningful. Pity about the cheap shot. My original comment had to do with former long haul pilots who were lucky to have squirrelled away enough over the years and who would enjoy a healthy and mostly daytime flying job. If I hadn’t had the lens replacement surgery which precludes a Class 1, I would probably be applying for such a position. There are those of us who try our best to make every hour of every duty day as much fun and enjoyable for all the crew and staff. This team camaraderie is probably what I miss most about being retired. |
Originally Posted by lucille
(Post 11308828)
No one does pissing contests and cheap shots better than Aussie pilots. It’s no wonder we’re so unpopular around the world. AustraNauts they call us! I’m sure the Crab Theory was developed by someone who studied Aussie pilots.
The rest of your post was reasoned and meaningful. Pity about the cheap shot. My original comment had to do with former long haul pilots who were lucky to have squirrelled away enough over the years and who would enjoy a healthy and mostly daytime flying job. If I hadn’t had the lens replacement surgery which precludes a Class 1, I would probably be applying for such a position. There are those of us who try our best to make every hour of every duty day as much fun and enjoyable for all the crew and staff. This team camaraderie is probably what I miss most about being retired. |
That Saab gig is in Tonga. $82k NZD for LHS.
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Originally Posted by Likeasomebody
(Post 11310157)
That Saab gig is in Tonga. $82k NZD for LHS.
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That Saab gig is in Tonga. $82k NZD for LHS. |
Originally Posted by Trevor the lover
(Post 11308228)
Wanna be Biggles
so was it not like that when you joined, or did you just not do research as to whether the job was right for you before taking it? |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11310453)
Has to be lifestyle based as that's quite literally half of what a Rex Captain gets paid and still seriously less than an FO would get paid.
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Fair cop - my apologies.
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They are offering AUD$130k to one candidate.
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120k is a 10 year captain base at rex so 160 assuming a considerable amount of overtime. That being said there's plenty of positions available at Rex currently. So many Saab drivers walking out the door from both seats. I think the story of the day was a certain captain that made $160K in six months then one day didn't show up for work. Legend has it he put the money into his yacht and when crewing finally caught up with him he was half way up the coast on some round the world tour. When asked where his priorities lay he parked up and returned to work like nothing had happened. |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11310741)
DTA and allowances like claiming every meal entitled will easily net you $20k+ then a few work on AL, crewing stuff ups resulting in extension payments or days off possibly another $10k-$20k without breaking a sweat or even cracking 700 hours for the year. The point was that its half of the AUD value, so only $70k a year. If you hit the Casual work hard you will easily crack $200k and still not hit 900 hours, and if you do they can't work you any harder but you can still do more casuals as they come up, or end up with several weeks of forced leave while you flight time recovers, depending on how good you are at swinging the numbers. I've seen this happen back when they first brought in the casual day payments, everything has just gone up since then. Some pilots had it so worked out they were working casuals to be taken off regular duties and worked no harder than someone just line flying the roster, just keep pestering crewing to give you the work and they did, CAO 48s and you worked for triple the pay one day and got the other off, no net gain in workload. BTW heard from a mate that the latest EBA offer will be a significant improvement. So that $120k might soon be well into the $130ks. Nothing huge compared jet jobs, but for the lifestyle options for some it sounds pretty good, especially if you want to live country.
I think the story of the day was a certain captain that made $160K in six months then one day didn't show up for work. Legend has it he put the money into his yacht and when crewing finally caught up with him he was half way up the coast on some round the world tour. When asked where his priorities lay he parked up and returned to work like nothing had happened. |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11310741)
DTA and allowances like claiming every meal entitled will easily net you $20k+ then a few work on AL, crewing stuff ups resulting in extension payments or days off possibly another $10k-$20k without breaking a sweat or even cracking 700 hours for the year. The point was that its half of the AUD value, so only $70k a year. If you hit the Casual work hard you will easily crack $200k and still not hit 900 hours, and if you do they can't work you any harder but you can still do more casuals as they come up, or end up with several weeks of forced leave while you flight time recovers, depending on how good you are at swinging the numbers. I've seen this happen back when they first brought in the casual day payments, everything has just gone up since then. Some pilots had it so worked out they were working casuals to be taken off regular duties and worked no harder than someone just line flying the roster, just keep pestering crewing to give you the work and they did, CAO 48s and you worked for triple the pay one day and got the other off, no net gain in workload. BTW heard from a mate that the latest EBA offer will be a significant improvement. So that $120k might soon be well into the $130ks. Nothing huge compared jet jobs, but for the lifestyle options for some it sounds pretty good, especially if you want to live country.
I think the story of the day was a certain captain that made $160K in six months then one day didn't show up for work. Legend has it he put the money into his yacht and when crewing finally caught up with him he was half way up the coast on some round the world tour. When asked where his priorities lay he parked up and returned to work like nothing had happened. You continue to go on about how this new proposed EBA is good, yet all I have heard is the contrary. |
Mate you can fly a King Air doing half the work for more money than that.
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11308233)
I've done the turboprop life, it's relatively easy, definitely not luxurious. Weather in Australia is benign mostly would struggle to log 3 hours actual IF in a month if you are smart you just fly over, under or around the weather.
Don't have that luxury in the top end in summer. And it's not "austranaut" when someone corrects utter garbage |
Mate you can fly a King Air doing half the work for more money than that. Not sure when you worked there but the average rex capt would be year 4-5, with a cadet loan. Meanwhile somebody trained for GA as said in another thread is starving and squabbling for pittance to make some experience. Don't have that luxury in the top end in summer. And it's not "austranaut" when someone corrects utter garbage It's well below cpi for the last 4 years with a very crude way to pay backpay. I also love people who say that to make good money you need to work annual leave. Stockholm Syndrome |
Originally Posted by Sector3
(Post 11310731)
They are offering AUD$130k to one candidate.
Yep, got the same message today. $130k AUD with transport, accommodation and relocation tickets isn't bad at all. 3-12 month contracts too 🤷🏾♂️ |
Yep, got the same message today. $130k AUD with transport, accommodation and relocation tickets isn't bad at all. 3-12 month contracts too 🤷🏾♂️ |
43, everything you are sprouting in here appears to be the opposite of what you’re saying in another thread. I thought people were supposed to be staying in GA until the SAAB or Jet job is paying $200+?
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Originally Posted by morno
(Post 11311369)
43, everything you are sprouting in here appears to be the opposite of what you’re saying in another thread. I thought people were supposed to be staying in GA until the SAAB or Jet job is paying $200+?
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Flying i Aussieland must be one of the easiest flying jobs in the world. 25 kts in Sydney, and you cancel everything and go home. Fond memories from my last trip down under. Terminal packed with waiting passenger due to «weather».
Where can I apply? And where is a good place to live for expats? Where we don’t have to mix with the locals? |
Originally Posted by ManaAdaSystem
(Post 11312319)
Flying i Aussieland must be one of the easiest flying jobs in the world. 25 kts in Sydney, and you cancel everything and go home. Fond memories from my last trip down under. Terminal packed with waiting passenger due to «weather».
Where can I apply? And where is a good place to live for expats? Where we don’t have to mix with the locals? |
Elcho Island would be a better place, tropical island in the South Pacific.
And for those who have the guts, go and fly for North Coast Aviation in Nadzab PNG - that will toughen the green horns up quickly if they survive 6 months. |
Manada
Flights rarely get cancelled due to "weather". That is just the lie the airline gives you when they can't crew the flight, or the aeroplane is busted, or whatever custerfaack has stuffed the system. If there's a puffy cloud in the sky the airline says we'll blame the weather and the dumb arse public will swallow it. |
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