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Pilot Shortage (Down Under)

Old 3rd Oct 2022, 07:55
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Pilot Shortage (Down Under)

While working to form the United Nations after WWII, Winston Churchill famously said "Never let a good crisis go to waste".

This very practise became the fallback position during the pandemic, with a multitude of examples abound. While C-Suiters were, and still are, laughing all the way from the stock market to their riverside mansions, they were and still are hellbent on devaluing the pilot profession and subsequent careers of the same skilled workforce they would (again) need in the future.

The notion of a real or perceived pilot shortage ebbs and flows throughout various cycles of the world economy. Yet similar to what happened ex 9/11, there is now a real possibility that in the near future, significantly sized airframes could go un-crewed. There might not yet be a full blown pilot shortage (in Australia), but there is already signs of a Shortage of (experienced) Pilots willing to Work for the Conditions on Offer.

Combine this with certain operators declaring economic and financial war on their pilot groups and you will start seeing the cracks appear - experienced pilots can and will start leaving for better conditions and mutual respect, while the same financial warmongering operators will start vacuuming lower experienced pilots into their ranks.

At first, it will all seem benign, but then...as the floodgates open, the influx of 'imported' pilots will cement these conditions (or lack thereof) as the new normal, with the profession being worse off for it in the long run - C-Suite Mission Accomplished.

The Cracks are Here:



...and another operator Here:

Last edited by RealSatoshi; 3rd Oct 2022 at 08:40.
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Old 3rd Oct 2022, 08:33
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Since when has AirNorth been using SAABs? or is this a replacement for the Braz or some other dablings...
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Old 3rd Oct 2022, 08:39
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Since when has AirNorth been using SAABs? or is this a replacement for the Braz or some other dablings...
Two unrelated indications of the 'cracks' referred to...
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Old 3rd Oct 2022, 08:43
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While there are cracks showinga nd definitely indicators that crew are starting to be valued my biggest indicator will be when the majors offer fully paid cadetships for the majority of entrants. Until then they are still seeing enough workforce generated from the lower levels to fill seats.

A lot of hype of shortages is also a tool to get more self funded kids into flying schools, "look we're desperate, pay for it and you will have a job!". Then you finish and find you are on a waiting list at the bottom end.

Sadly I don't see too much shortage a a boon for pilots, maybe short term, but once the airlines really kick into gear with their own full scale programs GA will shrivel further and the conditions of training will probably have a noose attached, eg China, where you are bonded for life. The MPL sorta does that as well, with licences linked to particular airlines training programs rather than free to use outside those organisations.

The screen I was using made the two different ads look like one, hence my confusion at the type....
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Old 3rd Oct 2022, 12:06
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What are Saab 340 drivers being paid in Oz?

There’s probably a lot of ex-long haul guys out there who have made enough to retire and would like to fly mainly front of the clock, same time zone and sectors of less than an hour. If I hadn’t had the lens replacement surgery which precludes a Class 1 medical, I’d quite like the relaxed lifestyle.
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Old 3rd Oct 2022, 16:35
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
What are Saab 340 drivers being paid in Oz?

Thereís probably a lot of ex-long haul guys out there who have made enough to retire and would like to fly mainly front of the clock, same time zone and sectors of less than an hour. If I hadnít had the lens replacement surgery which precludes a Class 1 medical, Iíd quite like the relaxed lifestyle.
Relaxed lifestyle for a regional TP captain. That joke made my day

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Old 3rd Oct 2022, 20:56
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The cracks have already well and truely formed.

As an example, the young ones who enter this QF school and do their program will be offered the jobs with ridiculous conditions they are super excited about, nice big shiny plane. The jobs we all wonít stand for because we want to be paid and given what we deserve.
Then give it a year or two too wear off, until the ďwhat the hell was I thinkingĒ thought comes around, when they canít afford too live because the EBA they signed up too isnít up to date with the current CPI. And the union and gov are useless too do anything about it, or they donít wish too do anything about it because of how weak they are.
Continue grabbing some pilots from overseas to work here for the ridiculous conditions as well; beautiful for the airlines theyíre laughiní.

The magic of aviation and working in it is gone.

One might hope that all these Australians leaving and a perceived shortage might see a change. I donít want to say it but I think the above answers it.
One can hope for a short while.

Last edited by xaos03; 3rd Oct 2022 at 21:11.
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Old 3rd Oct 2022, 21:47
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Originally Posted by RealSatoshi View Post

...and another operator Here:
Who are you suggesting this post is for?
People I know who work for both Rex and Link
Airways on the Saab have received contact via LinkedIn from Rishworth Aviation for this posting. Either itís not those airlines, or Rishworth are contacting people about the job they already have.
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 10:18
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Originally Posted by WannaBeBiggles View Post
Relaxed lifestyle for a regional TP captain. That joke made my day
Apart from the admittedly crap salary, whatís not to like?

Sleep in your own bed every night and actually get sleep! Luxury, Mostly day time flying in mostly benign weather. Luxury. Almost zero back of the clock flying. No jet lag with its attendant negative health effects. Luxury.





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Old 4th Oct 2022, 10:19
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
Apart from the admittedly crap salary, whatís not to like?

Sleep in your own bed every night and actually get sleep! Luxury, Mostly day time flying in mostly benign weather. Luxury. Almost zero back of the clock flying. No jet lag with its attendant negative health effects. Luxury.
Zero back of the clock and jetlag is correct, the rest is wrong. Sure it's not long haul but it's not sunshine and lollipops
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 10:41
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Pilot Shortage (Down Under)
Where's "Up Over"?
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 16:51
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
Apart from the admittedly crap salary, whatís not to like?

Sleep in your own bed every night and actually get sleep! Luxury, Mostly day time flying in mostly benign weather. Luxury. Almost zero back of the clock flying. No jet lag with its attendant negative health effects. Luxury.
The bed you either pay a fortune for that's close to the capital city you need to live in on a meagre salary, or the long commute if you want a decent place to live without paying through the nose.
Or the 4+ sector days, going up and down constantly, dodging weather, spending hours in a shitty regional airport "terminal" waiting a turn because the aircraft doesn't have an APU. Not to mention the light aircraft you might be dodging in and out of the uncontrolled airports you'll be operating in to.
Or maybe the hotels (or motel..) for the overnight not being even close to what someone who flew international being used to. (When the Gove Walkabout all of a sudden passes for luxury compared to some of the other places you've had to overnight)
Not to mention the lovely donga you might get to kick back in while doing a day wait at a mine site.

The benign weather comment makes me think you've never flown around Darwin or the Cape during the wet season....

By all means have a crack, but come back to me about the luxurious life of a turboprop skipper after you've spent some time doing the job.
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 22:53
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At first, it will all seem benign, but then...as the floodgates open, the influx of 'imported' pilots will cement these conditions (or lack thereof) as the new normal, with the profession being worse off for it in the long run - C-Suite Mission Accomplished.
It's a big wide world out there and like it or not the profession has few border protections now.

If you believe the reports of hundreds of Australian pilots finding jobs with Atlas, National, Kalitta et al you will also appreciate the irony.
North American pilots are lamenting that the E3 'floodgates' are now open, and their T&C are being cemented in by foreign nationals.

Don't get me wrong I think there are some great opportunities worldwide which should be taken advantage of, but Australian pilots cannot expect a one-way street as far as job opportunities are concerned.

Not in the last 44 years of my career have I seen this fabled pilot shortage.
But then again if you stay here long enough you see all kinds of shit.

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Old 4th Oct 2022, 23:40
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When the Gove Walkabout all of a sudden passes for luxury compared to some of the other places you've had to overnight
Now come on.... nothing wrong with the Walkabout.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 08:33
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Wanna be Biggles
so was it not like that when you joined, or did you just not do research as to whether the job was right for you before taking it?
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 08:45
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I've done the turboprop life, it's relatively easy, definitely not luxurious. Weather in Australia is benign mostly would struggle to log 3 hours actual IF in a month if you are smart you just fly over, under or around the weather. The occasional nasty trough can linger and make a few days a year tiresome and the multiple sectors keeps the brain active. Single overnights and day shifts make it pretty cruisy, with most of my old shifts around 6-7 hours duty a day. Pay was always just enough, nothing special, could afford a decent house, but not a beachfront mansion. Not going to even entertain spending over $10k a term on kids education, that's just nuts and trying to put your kids in schools where the rich and famous can only afford, not sure why bother. Courses for Horses really, lots of people enjoy flying TPs for regionals and have done it a long time, the majority got into aviation to fly jets and will never be comfortable in a TP, others will never be happy because the perfect aviation job just does not exist for them.
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 06:38
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Originally Posted by WannaBeBiggles View Post

The benign weather comment makes me think you've never flown around Darwin or the Cape during the wet season....

.

No one does pissing contests and cheap shots better than Aussie pilots. Itís no wonder weíre so unpopular around the world. AustraNauts they call us! Iím sure the Crab Theory was developed by someone who studied Aussie pilots.

The rest of your post was reasoned and meaningful. Pity about the cheap shot.

My original comment had to do with former long haul pilots who were lucky to have squirrelled away enough over the years and who would enjoy a healthy and mostly daytime flying job. If I hadnít had the lens replacement surgery which precludes a Class 1, I would probably be applying for such a position.

There are those of us who try our best to make every hour of every duty day as much fun and enjoyable for all the crew and staff. This team camaraderie is probably what I miss most about being retired.



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Old 6th Oct 2022, 07:20
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
No one does pissing contests and cheap shots better than Aussie pilots. Itís no wonder weíre so unpopular around the world. AustraNauts they call us! Iím sure the Crab Theory was developed by someone who studied Aussie pilots.

The rest of your post was reasoned and meaningful. Pity about the cheap shot.

My original comment had to do with former long haul pilots who were lucky to have squirrelled away enough over the years and who would enjoy a healthy and mostly daytime flying job. If I hadnít had the lens replacement surgery which precludes a Class 1, I would probably be applying for such a position.

There are those of us who try our best to make every hour of every duty day as much fun and enjoyable for all the crew and staff. This team camaraderie is probably what I miss most about being retired.
The team thing is what I miss most as well. When I was in the Middle East I missed it, as it was not really encouraged there. My previous airline in Europe really had a strong team ethic. I really miss that.
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Old 8th Oct 2022, 15:43
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That Saab gig is in Tonga. $82k NZD for LHS.
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Old 9th Oct 2022, 10:26
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Originally Posted by Likeasomebody View Post
That Saab gig is in Tonga. $82k NZD for LHS.
Really if I worked it out correctly that is around $72kAUD to fly a SAAB. I wouldnít have thought too many would go for that unless it is a lifestyle choice
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