Sing Air ponders domestic route
 

SingAir ponders domestic route
By JOHN MASANAUSKAS
27aug02 Daily Telegraph (Sydney)

MELBOURNE airport could become the hub of a new domestic airline being considered by Singapore Airlines.


Airport managing director Chris Barlow said yesterday that he had met an evaluation team from the airline.

"They were over the moon about the airport. They thought it was terrific," Mr Barlow said.

"We'd like to think they would be based here."

Singapore Airlines has been discussing terminal gate access with major Australian airports, but the carrier is yet to confirm a bid to challenge Qantas and Virgin Blue on domestic routes.

Some aviation analysts believe Singapore and an Australian partner could launch a new carrier in early 2003.

Mr Barlow said the airport had a very good relationship with Singapore, which he said might increase its daily international services from two to three.

The privatised airport yesterday announced a maiden pre-tax profit of $3.6 million and a 1.3 per cent rise in international passengers, despite the September 11 terrorist attacks.

But it suffered a 5.5 per cent drop in domestic travel, mainly because of Ansett's collapse.

Virgin Blue, which moved into Ansett's former terminal on Sunday, yesterday announced it had started legal action against Sydney airport over access to its old Ansett terminal.

Virgin chief executive officer Brett Godfrey said Sydney had reneged on a deal made in April.

"What they're asking for now is an outrageous cost to add to the travelling public," he said.

Mr Godfrey said Virgin had started proceedings in the New South Wales Supreme Court and was also considering taking action under national competition laws.

Sydney airport spokesman Peter Gibbs said a Federal Government review of the April deal had not backed Virgin's claims.

"We are keen to have Virgin Blue in our terminal and the door is always open (to negotiations)," he said.

Virgin Blue has out grown its $9 million home in the domestic express terminal at Melbourne Airport and moved into Ansett's former facilities.

Mr Barlow said another use would be found for the terminal building, probably for freight.

The gate lounge area will be dismantled and put up for sale.

Virgin Blue yesterday celebrated the opening of its new terminal.

The airline last month signed a 10-year lease on the terminal.

Thanks Airtart

Just as our early pioneers pondered the 'riddle of the rivers' some of us are doing exactly that now. What may lie ahead? After reading other posts it is still uclear as to what will occur in our skies.

It isn't half obvious that we need some SERIOUS competition here in OZ as the the pigs continue to mingle at the trough. DJ have not, and probably will not, EVER raise the bar. I hope they do. When Mr Dixon convinced our government that a SQ/AN/NZ deal would crush them, who would have believed that NZ would seemingly now become the fodder as the pigs continue to feed.

Whatever the outcome I just want to see healthy competition here in OZ.

Skystar.

Raise the bar in relation to what?

Don't hold your breath
 

SQ have been "pondering" the Oz aviation domestic market now for close on 10 years but what are they pondering on ? They have had many opportunities to get on board and at bargain prices.

He who dares wins.

You just ain't got it have you SQ !!!!!!

Too Easy
 

They will start, they will be sitting back watching QF and DJ fighting internally , offering a substandard service,borrowing lots of US dollars or diluting there own shares.
But oh what the Tesna Aircraft are due off the production line in September so by December there will be enough Aircraft to start up and well if you can pay cash for them and the maintenace is cheap for at least 3 years then the oncarriage should keep them at least break- even until the people move over to the far superior operation .
There will be no competition just a better Airline For QF and Dj to match but they have got interest payments to worry about.
If QF is lucky SIA will let them live only so the people can really see how good they are going to be.....
If SIA dont do it i will its too Easy.............:D :D

The last really serious effort by SQ to 'get on board' was when they wanted to buy, (and save?), Ansett, they were thwarted then by ANZ who may well have been acting at the behest of QF.

SQ certainly 'have it', just a case of when, I suspect.

Rambo, wan't it a MoU, never an order. If that were the case, what TESNA a/c?

Keg. My memory may be a little rusty & I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I recall something about the Tesna aircraft being cancelled orders. A similar deal to the AA/QF 738's. I think the A320's were rolling down the production line without owners, hence the deal on the MoU, but like the administrators, I doubt Airbus got a deposit!!

AsiaPulse Thurs 10:27am AEST

Australian State Urges Singapore Airlines to Set up Shop

MELBOURNE, Aug 29 Asia Pulse - Victorian tourism operators have urged Singapore Airlines to locate in Melbourne amid speculation the airline will launch into the Australian domestic market.
The Victorian Tourism Industry Council (VTIC) said the Victorian government and Melbourne Airport should do all they could to encourage the airline to locate its domestic base in Melbourne.

VTIC chairman John Button said Melbourne was Australia's only airport without a curfew and was closer than Sydney to key Asian cities.

"Melbourne's distinct advantages as a location for an airline headquarters would provide Singapore Airlines with everything it needs to develop not only a regional hub, but a domestic base from which it could operate a competitive domestic service," he said.

"With the departure of Ansett a year ago, there is still a vacuum for a second major carrier, and all the infrastructure is here in Melbourne."

Mr Button's comments follow reports yesterday that a Singapore Airlines evaluation team had met with Melbourne Airport managing director Chris Barlow.

"They were over the moon about the airport. They thought it was terrific," Mr Barlow told the Herald Sun.

"We'd like to think they would be based here."

But a spokesman for federal Transport Minister John Anderson today said the minister had not been approached by the airline about launching a domestic service.

"We don't know what they are proposing, if in fact they are proposing anything," he said.

But he said Mr Anderson generally welcomed more competition on the domestic market.

Qantas chairwoman Margaret Jackson yesterday said Singapore Airlines would be "brave" to enter the domestic market.

"If they want to lose a lot of money I guess they can come down here," she said.

ASIA PULSE

They've been 'pondering' now for just shy of 12 months. I wonder if they are ever going to bother making the 'D'.

Surprise, surprise....Margeret Jackson does't think it would be a good idea that an airline with more money than QF should start up a green-fields carrier in Australia. All of that Star Alliance on-carriage is obviously helping her bottom line somewhat.

I wonder whether Branson's legal action against SACL would temporarily preclude them (SACL) from awarding gates in the Sydney Ansett terminal to a prospective new entrant.

If it does, SQ may be in for a bit of a wait.

It didn't stop them giving them to QF.

I think you will find SQ are in the advanced stages of securing terminal space.

Without it, they would have left the building months ago.

Mrs Jackson should watch this space - and her bottom line - closely.

I agree with oicur
Cirrus

The Singaporeans tried and often off-set approach of sitting back,plotting (all supposedly) carefully analysing the market for the long-term outcome has failed them dismally in the past several years with the outcome being not only a loss of face but also the loss of hundreds of millions of $.

They have failed to correctly analyse and interpret certain contingencies critical to the final outcome - mainly to do with understanding people and interpreting attitudes of their adversaries so to speak.

The Ansett/Air NZ debacle is a case in point.
They failed to anticipate the moves of not only the QF board but also the NZ government,Brierley investments as well as the Air NZ board (which they themselves were a member).

It was handled carelessly by SQ and with great manipulative skill and cunning on the part of Geoff Dixon and his team at QF.

The purchase of 49% of Virgin Atlantic has caused numerous headaches for Dr Cheong also - particularly in the wake of 9/11 and almost caused Virgin Atlantic to go into administration early in the peace.

Numerous other ventures have come under criticism also in Singapore.

I agree - SQ have had numerous good opportunities in this country and have let them go by the wayside with disastrous consequences.
Clearly their approach is in need of rectification.

To start up an airline just to provide on-carriage seems inappropriate and the securement of terminal space in Oz is also critical.
They could have purchased the AnNsett Sydney terminal and derived income from that for a relatively most $190million.
Now they will have to pay through the nose and share the less modern portion of the terminal with someone else as QF has secured the modern B concourse.

A lot of wishful thinking but once again its going to cost them alot and for what?????

I agree, and I find it hard to believe that they could have missmanaged the situation in this way...Why didn't they pick up Ansett on the 14th Sept 2001, or right after the Tesna deal fell through...I just feel that the Howard Govt. had a lot to do with this especialy Anderson...I remember a reporter in Singapore saying that SQ was confused why the Victorian Govt. was up there trying to get them involved and they hd no response or approaches from the Federal Govt....and yes the terminals are crucial...because of the 30 year leases Ansett and Qantas had could make life difficult for new starts...I'd love to know the real truth behind all of this...:(

I believe Branson's clever and timely court action may effectively shelve any current plans SQ have for a domestic operation. I would imagine the courts would prohibit SACL from negotiating any further terminal leases until a decision is reached on Virgin's claims. SQ will not commence without iron clad guarantees.

Timing is everything.

Yet again, the good doctor may have missed his sampan.

should read
SQ will not commence.............!
:D

If SQ were to start up, they would be putting forward a Premium Airline with business and first class travel. Apart from Melbourne, where they could lease some gates, what other terminals are they going to operate from. There is nothing left. In Brisbane, Virgin have bought the Ansett terminal, therefore only leaving the common user area, (hardly suitable for a Premium airline), In Sydney there is no telling how long that will take to sort itself out, (and SQ wont just jump in and pay the going rate just to get in quick), In Adelaide, Virgin will be moving in there later in the month of September, leaving the International SHED that they operate out of currently. Again, hardly high quality stuff.
There are a lot of guys on this forum who desperately want/think that SQ are about to start up just so they can get a job, but guys, don't go and get the A320 endorsement just yet.;)

eisle s

It's pretty academic now that Sydney access is on hold, but I understand the concept was to provide premium business and economy class - no first class.

There is no doubt that pissed off / frustrated customers from QF and Virgin would have provided substantial A320/1 loads up and down the east coast and across to PER.

On the BNE terminal side; exactly what has Virgin leased? From memory, there are far more gates available than Virgin could use.

Eisle just to clarify a few points.
VB has not purchased the terminal at BNE it presently leases less than 50% of the capacity there.
Adelaide same deal only using a few gates, and the new terminal which will be common user is on the way.
Sydney, who knows i just can't see operators being able to lock up the infastructure, commen user being the most likely outcome as per part of the QF deal at SYD.

Ok. Hypothetically, IF SQ get something going here, I doubt that Terminal space will be an issue. SQ & DJ via ANZ were going to go against QF together until Dick tore up the cheque. That plan could still be in place.

Whichever way you look at this, SQ WILL get into bed with DJ in one way or another, it just depends how up front they want to appear.;)

How about SQ and Air New Zealand? :eek:

"God Forbid it!", the ex-An'ers cry.
Sorry guys and gals, but for MY money that presents a far better option for SQ (and Air Sheep).
I'm not trying to be abrasive by that statement, but merely ask YOU to consider what YOU would do if YOU were SQ.

QANTAS is in a strong financial position and would almost certainly want to dictate the rules to SIA.
SIA will want to be The Boss, in any venture/merger they enter into. QANTAS does NOT give them that option.

On the other side of the coin is Air New Zealand. They have an old fleet, and are in desperate need of a BIG injection (or use of someone else's equipment) to move forward.
In spite of their recent bonus payment to staff, I'll BET that this was a "power play" by Air New Zealand upper management to try to get more say in the running of their airline WHEN it is taken over.
New Zealand (Gov't and shareholders) simply don't have the BIG $$$'s needed.
Air New Zealand has access to all of the international routes that SIA are interested in obtaining over the next 10-20 years.

Air New Zealand also has access to Australian domestic routes.

That's MY call.

I'd be buying Air New Zealand shares if I were you, as once SQ enters there, the value will at least triple.

Errr....they're already there Kaptin!

I guess you must be referring to SQ/ANZ operating domestically in OZ. Sounds plausible to me, but would Joe Q fork out the hard earned to fly with them? Both are carrying a potential "legacy" over the AN demise & I'm sure QF & DJ wouldn't let the punters forget. Probably cheaper to set up too!

And, before you ask, no, I wouldn't apply! ;)

SQ won't be buying seriously into Air NZ any time soon.

The most likely scenario is for SQ to have some sort of commercial tie up with Virgin and QF to buy into Air NZ.

This would still mean a "new" full service carrier. But it would be tied commercially to Virgin. This would be QF's worst nightmare, having to compete once again on a more level playing field.

The other advantage of this scenario is that any issues over terminal access would evaporate, with Virgin and the "full service" carrier sharing gates Australia wide.

It would leave Virgin Blue intact as a low cost operation, but with the capacity to expand and compete directly against QF's Australian Airlines as it unfolds it's domestic network next year.

Corrigan can see huge dollars in this. Why was he in Singapore recently? You can bet it wasn't just to see the sights.

The doctor will aslo be fairly keen to retire with at least one successful deal under his belt.:D

Singapore In terminal Talks ??? Branson what next?
 

Branson prepares the shock tactics

31.08.2002


SYDNEY - He did it against British Airways. Now flamboyant British billionaire Richard Branson is bringing his shock PR tactics to bear on an Australian bank he says wants too much money to let him use a Sydney airport terminal it owns.

In a campaign reminiscent of the "No Way BA-AA" that emblazoned the tailfins of Virgin Atlantic aircraft when the British giant and American Airlines were mulling a tie-up, Branson vowed to paint "Macquarie - what a bunch of bankers" on his local Virgin Blue fleet.

He accused Sydney Airport of backing away from a handshake agreement on access fees to the terminal of collapsed Ansett Australia before the airport was bought by a Macquarie Bank-led consortium for A$5.6 billion.

"If we give in to this sort of extortion, the costs of this airline will go up, and if the costs of the airline go up, air fares will go up and that's something we won't let happen," Branson, 52, said.

"Macquarie, stop the Sydney airport rort" will be another slogan carried in an aggressive campaign to embarrass Macquarie.

Sydney Airports Corp wants to run the second terminal as a common user facility, leaving space for any new entrants.

Qantas, which operates out of the other main terminal, has agreed to take six slots in the 18-gate terminal and SAC spokesman Peter Gibbs says talks are taking place with Singapore Airlines.

Virgin Blue is 50 per cent owned by Australian firm Patrick Corp.

- REUTERS


:confused:

I must admit that the lead story on the Channel 9 National News today made me sit up and take notice!!

Just arrived home

What were the details of the story??????????

Ansett revival possible
September 03, 2002

SINGAPORE Airlines could be considering a proposal to revive the collapsed Ansett airline.

Less than two week's short of the anniversary of Ansett's failure, Channel Nine tonight reported a proposal to revive the airline would be put to Singapore's board.

Singapore Airlines consultants in Australia began secretly assembling a proposal for a full domestic competitor to Qantas about six months ago, with the proposal completed about a week ago.

Sydney Airports Corporation Ltd spokesman Greg Russell told Nine he believed Singapore was serious in its Australian domestic airline bid.

"We have every reason to believe this is being considered very seriously indeed," he said.

It is believed the Singapore domestic fleet in Australia would comprise 24 Airbus aircraft.

The Singapore proposal found the Ansett brand name still had strong support among Australians.

However, Ansett lawyer Leon Zwier said tonight there had been no discussion with Singapore Airlines.

"We're not sitting down to talks ... we're not doing deals with Ansett names or parts," he said.

"Although if they want to talk to us they would be welcome."

An Ansett administrators' spokeswoman would not comment on any speculation the airline was seeking a "domestic airline solution in Australia".

SQ have their Board Meeting on the 11th and are "almost certain to give the go-ahead for an Australian operation". 24 Airbus aircraft initially, full-service. Apparently they have done market research and determined that the name "ANSETT" is still held in high regard. Lets wait and see I suppose.

YA HOO !!!!!
More Jobs !!!

Airline silent on Ansett revival
 

Singapore Airlines is not confirming or denying a report that it is interested in reviving Ansett.

Channel Nine has reported that Singapore will soon consider a plan to launch a new Ansett using 24 airbus aircraft and employing around 3,000 staff.

A spokesman for Singapore Airlines says Australia is a market of interest for the airline, which operates 70 flights a week into the country.

The spokesman says Singapore is keeping its options open for the Australian market.

From ABC News

Have just returned from Singapore and caught up with some people. Word is and don't be surprised if SQ teams up with DJ operating dedicated acft on dedicated routes

Time will tell

Can someone please explain to me, why SQ would wait for a year or more to resurrect AN. All the while allowing the old customer base to erode, and QF & VB to become more entrenched?

Surely if SQ really were interested, the time would have been soon after the AN collapse, or, after M&M failed to get Tesna to proceed at the latest. :confused:

AAP

Ansett revival possible
By Karen Michelmore and Jane Williams
September 03, 2002

SINGAPORE Airlines could be considering a proposal to revive the collapsed Ansett airline.

Less than two weeks before the anniversary of Ansett's collapse, Channel Nine reported a proposal to revive the airline would be put to Singapore's board on September 11.

Singapore Airlines refused to confirm or deny the report, but said it was keeping its options open.

It stressed Australia remained an important market.

"Our position remains the same," Singapore Airlines told the AFX-Asia wire service.

"We are keeping our options open in the Australian market."

Speculation has been circulating about the entrance of a third carrier into the domestic Australian airline market for several months.

Singapore Airlines consultants in Australia began secretly assembling a proposal for a full service domestic competitor to Qantas about six months ago, with the proposal completed about a week ago.

The Nine Network said it believed the Singapore domestic fleet in Australia would comprise 24 Airbus aircraft.

Sydney Airports Corp Ltd spokesman Peter Gibbs confirmed an evaluation team had come out to look at the former Ansett terminal.

"We believe their assessment was very serious and very measured," Mr Gibbs told AAP.

"We have had ongoing discussions with them, but what they propose to do as far as setting up an airline is entirely up to the Singapore Airlines' board.

"We know nothing more than we did a couple of weeks ago."

Administrators have retained Ansett's heavy maintenance facility, a number of aircraft and a chief pilot with an air operators certificate enabling the aircraft to keep flying.

Singapore Airline was touted as the possible saviour of Ansett in the weeks before Ansett's collapsed last year when it owned a 25 per cent interest of Ansett's parent company Air New Zealand.

Later that year Singapore Airlines agreed to help Ansett administrators set up a viable business proposition for potential buyers.

It also agreed to speak to Lindsay Fox and Solomon Lew about taking on a role with Tesna, the pair's failed bid to relaunch the carrier.

Singapore Airlines is a member of the world's major airline team-up, the Star Alliance, which was left without an Australian domestic connection when alliance partner Air New Zealand cut Ansett adrift.

Ansett lawyer Leon Zwier said tonight there had been no discussion with Singapore Airlines, although talks "would be welcome".

An Ansett administrators' spokeswoman would not comment on any speculation the airline was seeking a "domestic airline solution in Australia".

An analyst said a third airline did not make commercial sense.

"There is a general sense out there that it is complete commercial madness for them to give it a go, but that has never stopped people in the past," he told AAP.

"The whole market is pretty well served at the moment."

Qantas shares were 12 cents lower today at $4.15.

AAP

Dow Jones 11:14 AEST

[Dow Jones] SIA spokesman offers no comment on renewed talk carrier preparing to set up domestic operations in Australia. But reiterates long-term interest in Australian market; "we are always looking at all options available for our long-term development in this market." Also denies speculation SIA has or will purchase former Ansett's domestic airline operating certificate.

Revive the name, for the perceived good will, that I can sort of understand. Revive the whole airline..........???? somehow I doubt it.

Wed "Sydney Morning Herald"

Qantas dips on new entrant talk
September 4 2002

Singapore is tipped as wanting to take on the Flying Kangaroo - if it can find a mate, writes Mark Todd.


Rumours that a new entrant had secured terminal space at Sydney Airport as a precursor to launching a domestic service were back again yesterday. Predictably, Qantas shares were sold off on fears of what a third operator would do to the cosy duopoly the airline shares with Virgin Blue.

It's hard to see anything happening soon. Singapore Air, the most likely to set up in Australia, has a board meeting later this month. The matter will get an airing then.

But Singapore Air isn't anxious to start a business here on its Pat Malone after burning a pile of cash in Ansett. It is thought the Asian carrier is trying to sound out the views of other potential investors.

There are signs that competition is already on the rise in Asia, with Cathay Pacific last week announcing it would add flights to Melbourne and Brisbane. And Qantas has applied to boost capacity to Hong Kong.

This will pretty well lock up the Hong Kong route.


Shares in Qantas eased 12c to $4.15.

Just checking out the flights on the
DJ site under schedules,check this out:

01/9/02-26/10/02

SYD-MEL = 17 flights a day
SYD-BNE = 12 flights a day
MEL-BNE = 7 flights a day

27/10/02-29/03/03
SYD-MEL = 11 flights a day (down 6 )
SYD-BNE = 10 flights a day (down 2 )
MEL-BNE = 6 flights a day (down 1 )

Not sure whether this is due to the terminal
problem at SYD, the maitainance problem or
making way for a 3rd airline.

Wirraway

Wirraway,

I think thats an old schedule from October on as it does not have PER/SYD etc. No idea why they leave stuff that is not current on the site.

Try requesting a flight after Oct and see how many flights come up.

Cheers