Bain: Virgin Australia needs to be more like Virgin Blue
Seems that Bain Capital "would bring back some of the Virgin Blue vibe to Virgin Australia if its bid to take over the failed airline is successful."
“We want to bring back the best parts of the Virgin Blue culture and make flying fun again," says Mike Murphy, who is leading Bain's bid team. Hope that doesn't also mean a return to Virgin Blue's LCC approach or its low-end customer service. Bain Capital says Virgin Australia needs to regain "Virgin Blue fun" |
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f869c7b633.png
We want to bring back the best parts of the Virgin Blue culture and make flying fun again Please don't bring back the face painting and the childish cabin crew antics. The graph shows that "the good old days" were troubled as well. |
Carla can lead from the front dressed in a flimsy thinly designed tutu and prance up and down the aisles of the aircraft to drum up business. Unfortunately she is only available for flights between 9 am and 4 pm, so most business travellers will unfortunately miss out on this theatrical fanfare.
The former Virgin Blue cabin antics will be amateur half hour compared to Carla's impending debut.:D VAH staff who end up working for this "new look" airline should be very afraid once she gets her mitts on the levers - God help us all. |
You guys aren't reading between the lines. "Bring back the fun" is a reference to when Virgin Blue first started out. Domestic only, one class cheap fares. They can't say they will be a bare bones cheap ticket operator cause that isn't a headline.
I really hope they get going but without the A2 person. . |
Originally Posted by Climb150
(Post 10792047)
You guys aren't reading between the lines. "Bring back the fun" is a reference to when Virgin Blue first started out. Domestic only, one class cheap fares. They can't say they will be a bare bones cheap ticket operator cause that isn't a headline.
I really hope they get going but without the A2 person. . Although I’d probably have to quit after realising that there’s a bit of travel involved! |
Getting back to basics is certainly a great idea.
Employing any failed CEO from any industry, hmmmm not such a great idea! We all want to see planes flying, whichever turn it takes, let’s hope the world gets airborne soon. |
Not sure that wedging yourself into the LCC corner is necessarily a smart idea. You will ceed all high end domestic and international travel to QF and just live in eternal price war hell with Jetstar and all the airports. You also compete with QF on your higher yielding flights. People will pay the extra $10 and fly QF.
I would have thought a Jetblue type of product or some variance on the current offering would have been the way to go. |
Originally Posted by non_state_actor
(Post 10792461)
Not sure that wedging yourself into the LCC corner is necessarily a smart idea. You will ceed all high end domestic and international travel to QF and just live in eternal price war hell with Jetstar and all the airports. You also compete with QF on your higher yielding flights. People will pay the extra $10 and fly QF.
I would have thought a Jetblue type of product or some variance on the current offering would have been the way to go. If they stay in Jetstar territory and don't bother mainline qantas too much they at least stand a chance of survival in the short term. Once you have some cash in the bank and not too much debt, then make a run at Qantas. |
Once you have some cash in the bank and not too much debt, |
Originally Posted by Climb150
(Post 10792500)
If a relaunched Virgin tries to compete with Qantas in the business travel/higher yield sector they will be crushed like a grape.
If they stay in Jetstar territory and don't bother mainline qantas too much they at least stand a chance of survival in the short term. Once you have some cash in the bank and not too much debt, then make a run at Qantas. A bit of history will tell you that before making their last "run at QF" they had at least made a few buck. The days Godfrey then JB started their attack on QF it was game over. Read Sun Tzu's book "The Art of War". all answers are there. |
One good thing about hiring Carla. She will wipe out....every....single....one of them.
Thats what Virgin needs. They need every Manager out. Everyone. Gone. |
One thing is for sure, those that Carla doesn't fire, will walk anyway after seeing the way she operates. No one needs to put up with the way she deals with people. Arrogant and dismissive are 2 characteristics that have been attributed by many who have worked with her in her previous part time jobs.
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Originally Posted by Rashid Bacon
(Post 10792515)
One thing is for sure, those that Carla doesn't fire, will walk anyway after seeing the way she operates. No one needs to put up with the way she deals with people. Arrogant and dismissive are 2 characteristics that have been attributed by many who have worked with her in her previous part time jobs.
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The game stores are going to be doing a roaring trade, imagine how much face paint and party games they will need crossing the pacific!
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Originally Posted by Variable Incidence
(Post 10792583)
I’m assuming Carla is J H😛. Just curious tho where does the name Carla come from?
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Just interesting there remain "true believers" who think there'll be a VA mk2.
Geez I hope there're right and I'm proven hopelessly wrong. |
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend
(Post 10792505)
A bit of history will tell you that before making their last "run at QF" they had at least made a few buck. The days Godfrey then JB started their attack on QF it was game over. Read Sun Tzu's book "The Art of War". all answers are there.
If VA tried to go back to a LCC, it'd still have to figure out how to beat JQ while leaving all of the corporate accounts to QF. |
Originally Posted by galdian
(Post 10792762)
Just interesting there remain "true believers" who think there'll be a VA mk2.
Geez I hope there're right and I'm proven hopelessly wrong. Jetstar might let them survive by not competing too much on lower yield routes. |
Virgin made money early on, but then Qantas expanded JQ and started squeezing Virgin hard from below, while dominating the corporate market from above. JB moved upmarket to get out of that pincer (because it would have been harder to cut costs enough to compete head on with JQ, while QF free to keep reaping in corporate accounts). QF dumped capacity on them while matching VA on enough product and service metrics to keep and win back accounts. |
Let's not forget skippers were on 120K and FOs on 80K in the first few years of VB. You couldn't help making money with that cost base.
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Originally Posted by Grivation
(Post 10793494)
Let's not forget skippers were on 120K and FOs on 80K in the first few years of VB. You couldn't help making money with that cost base.
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You couldn't help making money with that cost base. |
Originally Posted by Brakerider
(Post 10793542)
80k is probably close to 115-120k in todays dollars. Not far off the current EBA.
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Originally Posted by Brakerider
(Post 10793542)
80k is probably close to 115-120k in todays dollars. Not far off the current EBA.
Inflation 2000 >>> 2020 $80K is just over $130K in today's dollars. |
I'm sure the new VA 2 would be happy to earn $119k now.
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Every time I read an article on Bain I also think of Brown. It goes back a while or was that Brain from memory.
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Wouldn't Bain Capital be the worse thing to happen to Virgin since JB? private equity firms just prop a company up then gut it out. anyone remember Dick smith electronic?! Anchorage Capital does they made millions 510 of them.
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The only one who would be there forever and ever would be Indigo.
Not overly convinced the others are there for the airline’s prospering future interests. It remains to be seen how Virgin would fit into Bill’s lineup of Spirit, Frontier, Wizz. Would be the first full service venture. I think Indigo would be the best option for Virgin when taking into account long term survival. I guess we will find out in the next few days. Bill was after a local partner also. I wonder if Local means Singapore. |
Originally Posted by wheels_down
(Post 10796439)
The only one who would be there forever and ever would be Indigo.
Not overly convinced the others are there for the airline’s prospering future interests. It remains to be seen how Virgin would fit into Bill’s lineup of Spirit, Frontier, Wizz. Would be the first full service venture. I think Indigo would be the best option for Virgin when taking into account long term survival. I guess we will find out in the next few days. Bill was after a local partner also. I wonder if Local means Singapore. The J seats might be used similarly to Spirit's "Big Front Seat" style service in the interim, where they'll basically are just paying for the seat. Indigo may operate the 737s in the short term, but eventually those neos will be replacing VA's 737s. |
Originally Posted by DanV2
(Post 10796465)
Indigo will eventually convert/revert VA (back) into another LCC. Indigo are not in the business of operating FSCs and will want to allocate those 500+ A320Neos across their group, including VA if they are successful.
The J seats might be used similarly to Spirit's "Big Front Seat" style service in the interim, where they'll basically are just paying for the seat. Indigo may operate the 737s in the short term, but eventually those neos will be replacing VA's 737s. |
Originally Posted by DanV2
(Post 10796465)
Indigo will eventually convert/revert VA (back) into another LCC. Indigo are not in the business of operating FSCs and will want to allocate those 500+ A320Neos across their group, including VA if they are successful.
The J seats might be used similarly to Spirit's "Big Front Seat" style service in the interim, where they'll basically are just paying for the seat. Indigo may operate the 737s in the short term, but eventually those neos will be replacing VA's 737s. What's that definition of INSANITY again?? "Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome......." :hmm: |
Ex: the SMH- Union kingmakers fear Bain Capital's bid for Virgin Australia
Link here: https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...31-p54y24.html
Extract here: Union kingmakers fear Bain Capital's bid for Virgin AustraliaBy Sarah Danckert and Patrick Hatch May 31, 2020 — 11.45pm Unions controlling key votes in the Virgin Australia administration process have expressed serious concerns about Bain Capital's tilt at the airline due to the buyout firm's history of slashing jobs and imposing harsh conditions on workers offshore. Virgin's 9000 employees are owed a combined $450 million from the collapsed airline and will be a vital voting block to get any rescue bid approved. As a result, the unions representing the carrier's workers have emerged as kingmakers in the bidding process which will this week hit a pivotal juncture. Bain part-owned Toys R Us has a patchy industrial relations record in the US, particularly when dealing with workers made redundant during insolvency. Credit:Jane Dyson Bain, which in Australia is led by former Olympic diver Michael Murphy, is among the contenders for the airline alongside local private equity outfit BGH Capital, Richard Branson linked Cyrus Capital, US airline investor Indigo Partners and Canadian funds management giant Brookfield. Virgin's administrators Deloitte spent the weekend working through second round bids and could announce a shortlist of two final bidders as soon as Monday. Ahead of the decision, unions have aired concerns with Deloitte about Bain Capital's track record in the US where it has cut jobs and slashed worker entitlements. Transport Workers Union national secretary Michael Kaine said that while Bain had launched a public relations blitz last week to put forward its plans "this isn’t about the number of column inches you get". "It’s about how you can demonstrate that you can get Virgin back in the air in a way that serves workers and the travelling public,” Mr Kaine said. Four bidders for Virgin Australia have been shortlisted and will be revealed to the public. Mr Kain noted that Bain had a patchy record on respecting workers’ rights. "Our message to Bain and any other bidders is that Virgin’s workers are a unique workforce, they’re highly skilled, they’re highly dedicated, they’re fiercely concerned about the future of the airline and they are a force to be reckoned with for any bidders which doesn’t have Virgin’s long-term future as a priority, and which believes they can ram through plans which might ultimately hurt Australia’s chances of having a strong second airline." Union sources said they are also troubled by Bain’s track record on industrial relations, and after meeting with the group last week believed that the private equity firm would play hard-ball with Virgin's highly unionised workforce. Related Article Aviation Deloitte's call for Virgin emergency cash rejected as liquidity fears rise In 2017, around 30,000 US workers at Bain part-owned group Toys R US were left without severance pay when the retail chain collapsed. The workers launched a months-long campaign against Bain and former co-owners KKR and the Vornado Realty Trust, enlisting high-profile supporters including former Democratic Presidential candidates Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. Bain and KKR created a $US20 million hardship fund for workers in late 2018. This amount was on top of an earlier settlement which was short of the $US75 million workers said they were owed. There has also been criticism of the treatment of workers at music retailer Guitar Center when it was under Bain majority control. In 2017, the US National Labor Relations Board found the then Guitar Centre engaged in illegal union-busting activities in 2014 when Ares Management and Bain owned the group including "threatening employees with reduced benefits because of their union membership or affiliation", "interrogating workers about their support for their union" and "creating the impression that employee support for the Union was under surveillance". Worker representatives also fear that American ultra-low cost airline investors Indigo Partners and its partner Oaktree Capital would turn Virgin into a scaled-back budget airline which would employ far fewer people. Australian private equity firm BGH Capital, which is working on a bid with AustralianSuper, has proposed restarting Virgin with as few as 15 planes in the sky, which was also poorly received by union representatives, sources said. “There are concerns about many of the private equity bidders,” one union figure said. Brookfield - which dropped out of the formal sale process two weeks ago but made another bid on Friday hoping to remain a contender - remains the unions’ preferred bidder. They also view the Richard Branson-linked Cyrus Capital favourably after it outlined a plan to maintain Virgin as a full-service international airline. S28- BE |
Ex- the AFR: Steve Ciobo advising Bain's Virgin bid.....
Link here: https://www.afr.com/rear-window/stev...0200531-p54y1h
Extract here: " -Rear Window Steve Ciobo advising Bain's Virgin bid Joe Aston Columnist May 31, 2020 – 11.58pm Whoever emerges as Virgin Australia's new owner, and in whatever form the airline takes, the voluntary administration process will have been a consultants' picnic. Oodles of professional services mercenaries attached to the various bids – Bain, for instance, has 22 external advisers engaged "around the clock" on theirs – will no doubt be extra grateful for the fee bonanza at such a dismal point in the economic cycle. One former Somebody lending his expertise and entrée to Bain's bid is former federal minister Steven Ciobo, no doubt offering unparalleled insight into the direction of the wind, at any given moment, in Scott Morrison's Canberra. A curious choice. Does the Prime Minister's door even remain ajar to his former defence industry minister? You'll recall defence minister Christopher Pyne was allowed to serve out his final days in Parliament on the frontbench after announcing he would not contest the 2019 election. So, too, was human services minister Michael Keenan, despite his character assessment of his new leader as an "absolute arsehole". Very pointedly, however, Ciobo was not extended the same courtesy, sent to the backbench just 2½ months from the May poll. Having backed Peter Dutton in the Liberal leadership spill (and even run as deputy, garnering more votes, at least, than poor, deluded Greg Hunt), Ciobo had already been demoted from the trade and tourism portfolio when Morrison appointed his first cabinet in August 2018, a portfolio he'd really come to know and love. Ciobo spent almost as many nights in the key Virgin Australia destination of Los Angeles than George Christensen did in Angeles City – and Ciobo was even ordered by the (previous) Prime Minister's Office to cut it out. Who knew West Hollywood was such a nerve centre for bilateral trade negotiations with Indonesia or Peru? Hey, at least Ciobo hasn't been reduced to lobbying for L'Oréal. Over at rival Virgin bidder Brookfield, Canberra's vagaries are being interpreted for the Canadians by GRA Cosway. No government relations advice is required at BGH Capital, where principal Ben Gray considers himself an ex-officio member of federal cabinet. Why pay for a pale imitation when you've got the real thing engraved on the door? Joe Aston has helmed The Australian Financial Review's Rear Window column since 2012. He is based in Los Angeles. Connect with Joe on Facebook and Twitter. Email Joe at [email protected] " S28- BE |
Is Ben Gray related to the former Tasmanian Premier?
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Originally Posted by Section28- BE
(Post 10798800)
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"Ciobo spent almost as many nights in the key Virgin Australia destination of Los Angeles than George Christensen did in Angeles City"
Ha ha that's very funny...I live in Ciobos electorate and certainly he was not ever seen around except for junk mail sprouting falsehoods leading up to election time...predictably his replacement is the same...shame |
Yup Gotya, 'Level' there-
ScepticalOptomist And, DO 'truly' Trust, that you (and perchance, your Colleagues- being, 'those' IN 'It') get 'some' go-forward out of 'this' Gig . Should, 'you' be in 'IT'.........???? Shall- get, the 'YBBN' ATIS- should YOU require, but apart from 'that' GO Well !!!! Best regards to 'All' in this... Let, us see how 'it' rolls-out. S28- BE |
Originally Posted by Section28- BE
(Post 10799000)
Yup Gotya, 'Level' there- .......!!!:ok:
And, DO 'truly' Trust, that you (and perchance, your Colleagues- being, 'those' IN 'It') get 'some' go-forward out of 'this' Gig . Should, 'you' be in 'IT'.........???? Shall- get, the 'YBBN' ATIS- should YOU require, but apart from 'that' GO Well !!!! Best regards to 'All' in this... Let, us see how 'it' rolls-out. S28- BE |
Maaaate, get onto Apple Music and download some Peter Gabriel, it will help to make sense of it all...😉
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Bain is the worst thing that could happen to Virgin and Australia and the staff. The Bain model is simple; suck the life out of what’s left of the business, suck out all the cash as well. Load the business with service and financial contracts that keep Bain sucking cash out for years. Roll the resulting financial turd in glitter and sell it to investors. Profit.
The value of Virgin to Bain is the huge cash flow airlines generate, not the potential for profit. What I think Bain would do is to get their hands on that cash flow for as long as possible. They would do that by making Virgin enter some very one sided contracts with Bain controlled entities. You would start with a leasing entity, a facilities entity, perhaps a fuel hedge/broker entity, a finance factoring entity and maybe others. The ‘’independent’’;Hoho!Haha! Board led by chairman Carla will rush to sign such deals. ‘’You then have a zombie company. The new Virgin looks like an airline, but it’s paying Bain a premium through a range of expensive one sided leasing and service contracts. You then dress up Virgin as a new bride and flog her to the stock market. Mums and dads will buy. Bain is still raking in the cash through its service provision entities. Then it parcels them up and sells them to the stock market before the contracts run out....making more money from gullible investors. Virgin is left with a huge cost base, ageing aircraft and no profits. Bain sucked the life out of it. Of course in the old days they could just rip up the company and sell it to competitors. Not possible today. |
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