|
What did Virgin Blue start with ? 2 x ex AN B734s wasn't it ? BNE/SYD only ? |
The 734's came from Virgin in Europe, didn't they?
|
Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 10777907)
After the collapse CZQ appeared in VB colours very soon after as it was a leased aircraft.
|
Originally Posted by Going Nowhere
(Post 10777910)
The 734's came from Virgin in Europe, didn't they?
|
Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 10777907)
Ansett didn't fly the 400s and they weren't offloading any surplus 737's at that time. After the collapse CZQ appeared in VB colours very soon after as it was a leased aircraft.
|
Yup-
Four of them did; VGA, VGC, VGD and VGE came from Virgin Express. VGB and VOZ came from Air One. But, anyhoo- better go before 'one' gets 'Lit-Up', again..... Bloody good, 'Get' that!!!!! CZQ- wow, that does 'seriously' go back!!!!! Rgds S28- BE :ok::cool: |
Originally Posted by Section28- BE
(Post 10778125)
Yup-
You, 'Did' seriously drill that one- 'MickG'................, yup, 'Virgin Express' ex Brussels- 'one', maybe 'given' to understand........, 'that/there' were/may have been 'issues' with 'That' Show..........., as well???? But, anyhoo- better go before 'one' gets 'Lit-Up', again..... Bloody good, 'Get' that!!!!! CZQ- wow, that does 'seriously' go back!!!!! Rgds S28- BE :ok::cool: Last edited by Section28- BE; 10th May 2020 at 20:17. Reason: Manners............... |
CZQ was originally fitted with an internal set of stairs which had been removed. Unfortunately it just became a big water storage tank which did the avionics no good at all. From a fast receding memory I think VB had an incident where the avionics fritzed out because of water in the space the stairs occupied. something to do with shonky work when the internal stairs were removed.
|
CZQ was originally fitted with an internal set of stairs which had been removed. I recall when the B733 replaced the B732, one of the differences was that they didn't have stairs fitted (thank God for that; the B732 internal stairs were horrible) and that they left the factory in the stairless configuration. |
It was still an option,.CZQ was not built for Ansett. I used to have a cockpit photo of a -300 with traditional instruments fitted instead of the glass panel so anything was possible from Boeing.
|
Internal stairs always have been and are still a factory option on all models / series of 737, up to and including the current ones. Most don't go for them due to weight and cost, but it is an option.
Scomo's 737-BBJ has them... Nauru are still operating a 733 with them, and there are plenty of other examples. |
Originally Posted by machtuk
(Post 10775028)
well said, some are just angry little control freaks!
Your buddy Telfer goes on to admit he doesn't know the facts but was TOLD some things that turn out to be BS. He thinks 69 hours is a STRANGE number so must be doubtful. It would seem that neither of you understand what an EBA is, that it is an AGREEMENT between 2 parties, no "angry little control freaks" involved. |
Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 10778787)
.CZQ was not built for Ansett.
|
So true Buster. CZQ spent the first 10 years of its life with British Midland.
|
Still think it is a strange number
Union boys must have wanted under 70 Would have thought at least 75 per month pre OT was the mins these days - well it was with JQ back in 2005 and it hasn't gone south since QF of course the benchmark of SH low OT thresholds - with the great deal of 53.5 origins in 1989 - do you think it will last ? All entitle to free opinion but you would think 69 times 10.5 is a pretty light on for a year QF guy who stated OT normally paid at higher rate times 1.5 ; 2 ; 2.5 etc , well we all wish for the 1980's but OT at same rate has been common place in Australia for decades Maybe more so outside the Union heartlands of Melb |
Originally Posted by Icarus2001
(Post 10775016)
Well it certainly was not crew wages that drove them into administration.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e0c1851fc8.png Wages for example. Same in USA, Russia, South America, China? Fuel - same price in Dubai as Kalgoorlie? Leasing rates - same in 1989 as in 2019? |
Originally Posted by Telfer86
(Post 10778886)
Still think it is a strange number
Union boys must have wanted under 70 Would have thought at least 75 per month pre OT was the mins these days - well it was with JQ back in 2005 and it hasn't gone south since QF of course the benchmark of SH low OT thresholds - with the great deal of 53.5 origins in 1989 - do you think it will last ? All entitle to free opinion but you would think 69 times 10.5 is a pretty light on for a year QF guy who stated OT normally paid at higher rate times 1.5 ; 2 ; 2.5 etc , well we all wish for the 1980's but OT at same rate has been common place in Australia for decades Maybe more so outside the Union heartlands of Melb And for what it’s worth - the EA prior to this one was 71 hours...some more odd numbers for you to pontificate about. |
Originally Posted by Telfer86
(Post 10778886)
Still think it is a strange number
Union boys must have wanted under 70 Would have thought at least 75 per month pre OT was the mins these days - well it was with JQ back in 2005 and it hasn't gone south since QF of course the benchmark of SH low OT thresholds - with the great deal of 53.5 origins in 1989 - do you think it will last ? All entitle to free opinion but you would think 69 times 10.5 is a pretty light on for a year QF guy who stated OT normally paid at higher rate times 1.5 ; 2 ; 2.5 etc , well we all wish for the 1980's but OT at same rate has been common place in Australia for decades Maybe more so outside the Union heartlands of Melb Don’t see the point in calling it OT if there is no increased rate or guaranteed minimum extra hours at that rate. Historically OT was introduced to prevent employers arbitrarily assigning extra work. The argument for such a low minimum guarantee in the SH Award has always been that the hourly rate is comparatively high. You can have a higher minimum guarantee and OT penalty rate but only if the hourly rate is lower. You cant have both. That’s why comparing JQ VA and QF Shorthaul is futile. Oranges and apples. Personally I’ve always liked the idea of fleet pay , but thats never going to happen. |
Originally Posted by Telfer86
(Post 10778886)
All entitle to free opinion but you would think 69 times 10.5 is a pretty light on for a year
:ugh: |
Fleet pay could be a step closer by the time the borders open up
|
Originally Posted by chookcooker
(Post 10778910)
If 69 is a “strange number” wtf would you call 10.5??
:ugh: |
George George you have to leave this 1980s mindset behind or perhaps you just like Billy Shorten
Employees have been working extra time than their scheduled shift etc , allocated period of work for the same "flat rate" rate of pay for decades Just because it's not double time doesn't mean its not overtime , otherwise George you would have the poor working man doing 12 hours & telling him that he ain't working OT. Does that sound fair George ? Does anyone know any NB pilots with a better deal than QF SH ? Fritz from LH or Pierre from AF , might come close ? |
Telfer, what is the point you are trying to make?
|
Originally Posted by Telfer86
(Post 10778927)
George George you have to leave this 1980s mindset behind or perhaps you just like Billy Shorten
Employees have been working extra time than their scheduled shift etc , allocated period of work for the same "flat rate" rate of pay for decades Just because it's not double time doesn't mean its not overtime , otherwise George you would have the poor working man doing 12 hours & telling him that he ain't working OT. Does that sound fair George ? Does anyone know any NB pilots with a better deal than QF SH ? Fritz from LH or Pierre from AF , might come close ? With the greatest of respect you have missed the point entirely. It is not my fondness or otherwise for overtime rates that is the issue. Its the structure of the award itself. Pilots were enticed back to work back in `89 by are bare-bones award with few benefits except a very high hourly rate. Ever since then it has been an uphill battle to vary the award and the high hourly rate and low minimum guarantee are the weapons used by management ever since. Any variation to the award has to be at the expense of one or both. Management loves the simplicity of it and even more the fact that there is zero pressure on the producers of rosters to maximise their efficiency. All the benefits go one way. There is pretty well zero affection for the SH award precisely because of what it does for the life style/money balance. Nothing to do with my affection for penalty rates. Got it now? |
Telfer, it may be for pilots that they have been working OT at a flat rate for decades, but let me assure you that every other industry that I know of nobody would work OT for a flat rate even if that was the award............which it isnt
|
Never worked for a government entity, and never worked OT without the appropriate rate.
|
Originally Posted by Telfer86
(Post 10778992)
Spoken like you are a worker in Vic Rail heavy duty workshop in the mid 90s & Billy Shorten & Penny Wong has just walked out the door after a rousing lunch time sing along
(what's that labor babble they go on with ? , the commo crap ) Oh boy such sheltered & narrow experience , Arnold at least several hundred 1000 Australians work extra time for no double time , as no doubt some of the Airline people are finding out right now , bet ya the places where they got preferential treatment don't pay 2times I'm bored with this debate , let's talk about something interesting How many QF pilots will be made redundant & which part of company will they come from ? |
Heh heh , the grammar Nazi.
Thats always convincing. How about arguing the point? |
Originally Posted by Telfer86
(Post 10779040)
Well the topic is Virgin & this is a pilot website
So I would think at an average of $300K for a NB Capt & around $190 K for an FO I would have to say that I don't think they Virgin pilots were as put "being screwed' We have to do something about this grammar of yours 10.5 rp/yr $300k/yr capt NB average $190k/yr FO NB average Any other incorrect figures you want to spit out there Dopey?? |
Well the topic is Virgin & this is a pilot website So I would think at an average of $300K for a NB Capt & around $190 K for an FO I would have to say that I don't think they Virgin pilots were as put "being screwed' We have to do something about this grammar of yours |
Originally Posted by non_state_actor
(Post 10779252)
300K/190K as an average?? Where do I sign for that deal??
|
REX looking at taking over VA flying
Originally Posted by BNEA320
(Post 10777830)
so my 2 cents .....
QF & VA had way too many staff getting paid too much, BUT QF had larger share of corporate market, who pay top dollar. You only had to look around at airports, with many well paid staff, standing around doing stuff all between flights. New QF will have less staff probably being paid less or paid same but with more required (not saying necessarily pilots will work more hours). New VA, if it gets up (can the administrators stuff it up ? Looks possible) will have a huge haircut in terms of staff & pay & conditions, otherwise a totally new airline will pick up either B737 or A320 aircraft leases for a song & pay nothing like QF/VA have in the past. A new airline will only have to fly trunk routes more frequently than JQ & have cheaper fares than QF. Govts might have to subsidise non-trunk routes or JQ will fly them at higher fares, which will hurt tourism industry recovery in the regions. Plenty of experienced ex VA & other airline staff, who would work for a lot less than they were getting, as have mortgages etc. A new airline might start slowly, hiring only as needed, but in this new world, they could probably start with 6-8 aircraft or less, doing triangle only to offer a schedule better than JQ. Remember JQ will never fly frequently on the golden triangle or will be competing with QF. What did Virgin Blue start with ? 2 x ex AN B734s wasn't it ? BNE/SYD only ? Seem to be plenty of venture capitalists around with plenty of cash to fund it. Wouldn't be surprised if some of pay of any new airline was either shares or % of profit. |
Lower basic pay and higher hourly reduces an operators all important fixed costs. It also incentivises people to work on a day off, which reduces the number of employees required on the payroll as absences can be covered. Pilots can fly close to maximum hours if they want to by putting their hands up for extra work, better to have 100 pilots doing 900 hours a year than 110 doing 820 hours a year. It's similar to the tip system used in the USA where a waitress earns a very low basic wage but makes it up with an expected 15% premium on each customers bill.
In many instances flying pay can make up half of a pilots income which is fine when you're bouncing off the limits but not so good at the moment. However the current downturn is so severe and unprecedented that very few airlines will be able to sustain high fixed wages for much longer, and in the absence of a rapid recovery pay cuts may be needed in the short term to ensure that as many people are kept on a possible and the company survives. |
VA pilots could have worked for free over the last 10years and the group would still delivered a loss.
journalists should be asking the taboo questions- where was Chairman Elizabeth and her board whilst this folly unfolded under their leadership. |
Gents, forget previous contract pay and conditions.
This is a new world. The Rex announcement today is the demise of VA and if you want a job, be prepared to have salaries that match the regional rates. The VA Board, bless them, will probably move on to running the banks or the aged health system. |
journalists should be asking the taboo questions- where was Chairman Elizabeth and her board whilst this folly unfolded under their leadership. The first was the general commentary that Virgin had around $900 million in cash reserves. The second is the reality that there was "only" $150 million available mid April which the board knew would only last weeks and not months. So the journalists need to dig further to find out why there was such a difference in the "apparent" cash and why the reality was $ 150 million. Was the board complicit in hiding the true position to the ASX. |
Originally Posted by Telfer86
(Post 10779795)
yes I know the data is likely way to low
as if you look at section 20 , page 16 you see the base for 2019 is $239k/155k respectively https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/doc...a/ae428327.pdf As we know a base salary is not a gross salary or an average salary , it is the absolute minimum Factor in extras that are included in this padded & cushy 117 document and you are clearly well north of the numbers above Seems like extra $$$$ a plenty , what do you get for "I am flying with a sore p**** today?" no no no, dig up stupid |
Why would any aspiring pilot want to become a airline pilot with the culture of Media and commentators like teller86 cutting you down the moment you earn as much as an average diesel fitter, and much less than a train driver.
Due to the cyclic nature of aviation unless you snagged a dream run of cradle to grave with a legacy airline as a cadet. You endured large periods of no work or low pay along your career path to LHS of 73. It’s not for everyone that’s why we had such an acute pilot shortage. |
es I know the data is likely way to low as if you look at section 20 , page 16 you see the base for 2019 is $239k/155k respectively https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/doc...a/ae428327.pdf As we know a base salary is not a gross salary or an average salary , it is the absolute minimum Factor in extras that are included in this padded & cushy 117 document and you are clearly well north of the numbers above Seems like extra $$$$ a plenty , what extra payments do you blokes get for "I am flying with a sore p**** today?" Are you aware that your 300K number is almost mathematically impossible?? If you flew the legal limit every year you would never get anywhere near 300K. To get near it you would have to then work on days off which is a lottery. So to sprout 300 as an average it utterly ridiculous. Given the salary information is public how about doing some research before coming on here and preaching about salaries. |
Why would any aspiring pilot want to become a airline pilot with the culture of Media and commentators like teller86 cutting you down the moment you earn as much as an average diesel fitter, and much less than a train driver. |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 16:54. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.