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Originally Posted by planejane
(Post 10751531)
OK, Melbourne Flyer that's your opinion and I'm not here to change it, but you do realise that you and your kids won't be burdened with this debt? It's a loan or part equity - not a grant as has been given to the regionals (Rex is over 60% foreigner owned). The main owners of VA are all airlines and where are they going to find the money now? Interestingly all (except Bransons' Virgin Atlantic) have been given government assistance (not a loan). Remember QF is 49% foreigner owned too. Are you going to whinge when AJ comes holding his hand out to prop up his airline.....again? BTW, if Joyce asks for government help, I'd support that too. As PS has stated many times - industry wide assistance is needed in these truely unprecedented times.
This is an airline which has lost money every year for, what, six years? It lost something like $88m in 1H20, and we can wipe out 2H20. Now to repay a $1.4bn loan in three years, Virgin Australia would have to make a profit of $470m per year, allowing a few million extra for 'pocket money'. Do you think that sort of turnaround is even remotely possible? Of course it's not. Which means the Government ends up with a pretty big stake in Virgin Australia, and suddenly the airline will be driven by political factors not business factors. The local member for Whoop-Whoop has people complaining they don't have flights to SYD, or not enough frequency, or they are too expensive. Well, because the member for Whoop-Whoop holds a marginal seat in the Government, he gets to tell Virgin "Start daily flights between Sydney and Whoop Whoop, oh and keep the fares low, no more than $200, because we have to look after the families and the workers." This sort of stuff will keep going forever, Virgin Australia will be worse off. And if Virgin Australia gets a bail-out then absolutely Qantas should get one as well. I just don't believe either airline should get a bail-out. And as someone else here said, think about Holden or other car makers who raked in massive government payments for years, but still shut down and you know what? Life went on. |
The US government agreed a $25bn bailout for the beleaguered airline industry on Tuesday as the coronavirus pandemic brings travel to a virtual standstill. Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (Cares Act) economic relief package passed last month in order to allow them to continue paying salaries and benefits to employees in the coming months. Details of the aid package are expected later on Tuesday. With the coronavirus now spread across more than 100 countries and every continent except for Antarctica, air travel has all but ground to a halt. The International Air Transport Association (Iata) is predicting airlines will lose $314bn in revenue this year, 25%, almost three times the amount it forecast in a “worst-case scenario” five weeks ago after reassessing the hit to the global economy it expects. The grants to major airlines including American, Delta, Southwest, JetBlue and United will probably come with strings attached. According to the Wall Street Journal the airlines had wanted the loans to be forgiven but the treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin, told carriers that 30% of the assistance would need to be repaid, and that airlines would have to offer stock warrants – giving the government the right to buy shares in the companies – on a portion of those funds. There was widespread criticism after the last recession when the US taxpayer bailed out some the US’s largest banks and the auto industry but did not gain from their eventual recovery. In a statement, Mnuchin said: “We welcome the news that a number of major airlines intend to participate in the payroll support program. This is an important Cares Act program that will support American workers and help preserve the strategic importance of the airline industry while allowing for appropriate compensation to the taxpayers.” American Airlines will receive $5.8bn as part of the deal and plans to request a loan for a further $4.8bn. “The payroll support program recognizes the extraordinary dedication of our entire team, and importantly, sustains the critical air service being provided by our front-line team members,” Doug Parker, chief executive of American Airlines, said in a statement. This is a worldwide issue that is crippling airlines everywhere and reasonable governments are supporting their airlines. We all know that the previous CEO at Virgin was useless and Paul Scurrah can't repair a decade of gross incompetence overnight but Paul was on the right path right up to the point where the government imposed travel restrictions. Bottom line, if COVID-19 hadn't come along, Virgin would be on an upward trajectory. Get over the past and let's get on with the future!!! |
To date there is probably, at a guess, 100,000 Aviation and aviation related people unemployed in Australia. What a shame that the WA fu#kwit GT isn’t out of a job as well. Ironic isn’t it? His real life experience and knowledge of aviation would be less than the cleaner who cleans the taxi rank ****ters at Mascot airport, yet he is still being paid FFS. It’s almost criminal.
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I'll add my 2c worth(less).
Does the gov bail out VA? Yes, but only if it takes an equity share based on the present share price. If the overseas shareholders don't like that then they should stump up the cash. If the gov provides a loan where will it sit in relation to other creditors like the banks. If they're not the ahead of every other creditor then the simple answer is NO. It's likely that VA will fail or if not will require further cash injection, if the bailout is in the form of a loan that will be likely lost money. Do what the NZ gov did and take an equity share in the company and if VA comes good, then recoup your money by off loading it. Why should the taxpayer take the risk and the shareholders get the benefit at little cost if it works out? Some of GT's comments (some!!) are seriously pressed to hold any water, same with a lot of other msm comment, mostly emotive argument to gain public support. I watched one ABC (who I like) ******'s take how it wasn't appropriate for the gov to an equity stake as it may not be able to sell it, but should provide it with a loan. Well, if you couldn't sell it, it means it's a dog, why would you back it with taxpayers money? Same can be said with the anti VA take, like "there will be plenty of airlines interested in coming in". Bull****. No one commentating on this in the media seems to be interested in any factual discussion on what may be the best path, just in getting across their vested interest argument. |
Originally Posted by Paragraph377
(Post 10751654)
What a shame that the WA fu#kwit GT isn’t out of a job as well. Ironic isn’t it? His real life experience and knowledge of aviation would be less than the cleaner who cleans the taxi rank ****ters at Mascot airport, yet he is still being paid FFS. It’s almost criminal.
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Do what the NZ gov did and take an equity share in the company |
Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle
(Post 10751650)
Bottom line, if COVID-19 hadn't come along, Virgin would be on an upward trajectory.
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Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin
(Post 10751700)
People seem to miss the point that ANZ is the only major international carrier in NZ. Of course the NZ government will prop it up - there are far more "national interest" aspects with ANZ than there are with VA.
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Originally Posted by topend3
(Post 10751567)
Direct cash injections to Rex? When? #fakenews
From the Aus Govt Grant Connect site; COVID 19 Regional Airline Network Support Program - connect regional Australia to freight, medical testing, supplies and essential personnel. Domestic commercial RPT ops May apply.......198 million available. COVID 19 Regional Airlines Funding Assistance - assist airlines operating services to regional and remote locations to continue to provide air services by providing financial cashflow where required......100 million available. Then we have the Australian Airline Financial Relief Package - The measures are, waiver of fuel excise, waiver of Airservices chargeS, domestic aviation security charges rebate, offsetting screening costs, providing infrastructure support for screening requirements.........715 million available. REX, a majority Singapore owned company, already has subsidised routes and now has some of this cash available. I don’t begrudge that. We need viable air services, especially in the bush. Thats where I started, that’s where most of you started. But all this talk of not supporting foreign company’s, ie VA, ****s me. The banks are foreign, the insurance company’s are foreign, the petrol companies are foreign, FFS the big Australian BHP is foreign. An article this morning stats ‘there is no food shortage in Australia! 70% of our food is exported.’ The intent being we just stop exporting it and we’ve got heaps. I went to the Dept Ag site to read it. Looked up the first ( and largest) fresh food producer it listed....guess what....foreign owned. Do you think they are actually going to restrict produce back to the parent company’s country of origin. Bit of a rant, sorry, just trying to set the record straight. The COVID crisis has turned everything on its head. Think about the country in 1 or 5 years time. Think about the stifled growth. It’s not about VA or QF or REX, it’s about all 25 million of us trying to scratch out a living and try and leave the place a bit better for our kids. Rant over, #fake fake news |
Originally Posted by No Idea Either
(Post 10752566)
multiple press releases from the Deputy PM Michael McCormack (Nats)
From the Aus Govt Grant Connect site; COVID 19 Regional Airline Network Support Program - connect regional Australia to freight, medical testing, supplies and essential personnel. Domestic commercial RPT ops May apply.......198 million available. COVID 19 Regional Airlines Funding Assistance - assist airlines operating services to regional and remote locations to continue to provide air services by providing financial cashflow where required......100 million available. Then we have the Australian Airline Financial Relief Package - The measures are, waiver of fuel excise, waiver of Airservices chargeS, domestic aviation security charges rebate, offsetting screening costs, providing infrastructure support for screening requirements.........715 million available. REX, a majority Singapore owned company, already has subsidised routes and now has some of this cash available. I don’t begrudge that. We need viable air services, especially in the bush. Thats where I started, that’s where most of you started. But all this talk of not supporting foreign company’s, ie VA, ****s me. The banks are foreign, the insurance company’s are foreign, the petrol companies are foreign, FFS the big Australian BHP is foreign. An article this morning stats ‘there is no food shortage in Australia! 70% of our food is exported.’ The intent being we just stop exporting it and we’ve got heaps. I went to the Dept Ag site to read it. Looked up the first ( and largest) fresh food producer it listed....guess what....foreign owned. Do you think they are actually going to restrict produce back to the parent company’s country of origin. Bit of a rant, sorry, just trying to set the record straight. The COVID crisis has turned everything on its head. Think about the country in 1 or 5 years time. Think about the stifled growth. It’s not about VA or QF or REX, it’s about all 25 million of us trying to scratch out a living and try and leave the place a bit better for our kids. Rant over, #fake fake news |
Bedder believeit
I worked in the aviation industry in PNG, Australia, Dubai and Hong Kong for 45 years, and I loved what I did, both the flying, and ATC and I loved every minute of it, along with the aeroplanes that meant so much to me. When I was a 6 year old kid in New Guinea in the early 50's I still remember Gibbes Sepik Airways JU-52's between Madang and the Highlands or QANTAS DC-3's with side saddle seating, and QF Connies from Moresby to Sydney. Now I sit and read some thoughts on people who might be in aviation, but don't love it. I have nothing to do with aviation now, other than memories, and I know a few VA pilots, and my heart goes out to all the aviation people in Australia, no matter their job function, who are **** scarred of where their future lies. I read thoughts by people on this topic of Gov't assistance to VA (and others) about our country being cast into debt for years to come. Well who gives a ****? Look at any major project in the past that caused squeals of outrage when being mooted, be it be the The Sydney Opera House, F1-11's or any other expensive project. So what. The future in it's own quiet way sorts things out. I hope the aviation industry gets back to where it was, and we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief. Love aviation people.
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