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Media coverage of govt support for VA

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Media coverage of govt support for VA

Old 15th Apr 2020, 06:20
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Media coverage of govt support for VA

It's interesting to see who is coming out against a govt bail-out of Virgin Australia and who is coming out strongly in favour of it.

Fairfax and The Australian appears to have a foot in both camps, most columnists are outright against it and some support some measure of govt assistance.

But if anybody caught GT on ABC Radio this morning, boy oh boy, he may as well take on a new job as a paid lobbyist for VA! It was actually embarrassing to hear and embarrassing that ABC gave so much air time to somebody who is supposed to be 'independent' yet painting the worst doom and gloom scenario for a world without Virgin Australia. Now I hope Virgin Australia survives, I am not a hater, but I'm not sold on the government giving them a billion dollars of taxpayer money, which will open the floodgates for other failed and failing companies and inevitably mean that the government ends up as a major shareholder of Virgin and suddenly the airline comes a political football instead of a business.

Anyway, more of GT's rabid "The Government MUST bail-out Virgin!" at https://www.airlineratings.com/news/...port-airlines/ and also https://www.airlineratings.com/news/...lion-10-years/

It looks like GT now has membership of Virgin's The Club as well as the Qantas Chairman's Lounge!
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 09:04
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Er yeah,’bout time,he’s been one of the most pro-Q people in the MSM since ......forever.
Maybe his attempt at a square-up.
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 09:12
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I will be very surprised if they get given a billion dollars of taxpayers money. Govt will be conscious if they do that for VA how many other different companies in other sectors will want the same.
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 09:33
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I will be very surprised if they get given a billion dollars of taxpayers money. Govt will be conscious if they do that for VA how many other different companies in other sectors will want the same.

I will be very surprised if the US government gave 25 billion to half a dozen airlines in the US. Oh! What a surprise they have.


Spirit Airlines just recorded a 160 million loss for the Q1 loss though welcomes a 1.2 billion bail out.
Southwest will get 3.2 billion.
American will get 5.8 billion.
Delta will get 5.4 billion United similar figure.

Last edited by Turnleft080; 15th Apr 2020 at 11:53.
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 09:43
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We live in interesting times indeed!
'If' the Govt don't hand over tax dollars I can't see VA coming back from this, catch 22 situation, damned if they do damned if they dont,
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 10:06
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GT and Airline Ratings are sponsored by several airlines. Virgin is one of them. Of course he doesn’t want them gone...it’s bad for business.
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 12:17
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080 View Post
I will be very surprised if they get given a billion dollars of taxpayers money. Govt will be conscious if they do that for VA how many other different companies in other sectors will want the same.

I will be very surprised if the US government gave 25 billion to half a dozen airlines in the US. Oh! What a surprise they have.


Spirit Airlines just recorded a 160 million loss for the Q1 loss though welcomes a 1.2 billion bail out.
Southwest will get 3.2 billion.
American will get 5.8 billion.
Delta will get 5.4 billion United similar figure.
With an ‘official’ national debt of around $24 trillion and an ‘unofficial’ debt of around $300 trillion they simply couldn’t care less. Just print more money and kick the can further down the road, keep the Ponzi scheme growing. When it all falls apart, and it will, it will make the Great Depression, 87 and 2008 look like Childs play. Irresponsible and reckless fools.

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Old 15th Apr 2020, 13:17
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
With an ‘official’ national debt of around $24 trillion and an ‘unofficial’ debt of around $300 trillion they simply couldn’t care less. Just print more money and kick the can further down the road, keep the Ponzi scheme growing. When it all falls apart, and it will, it will make the Great Depression, 87 and 2008 look like Childs play. Irresponsible and reckless fools.
Unless they forgive all debt owed to China as a result of recompense for the damage caused by the “China Virus”.
It is most definitely on the cards and the Commander in Chief is just mad enough to do it.
I hope we don’t head into war at the end of this. Tensions are high and nationalism is the mantra.
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 13:35
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Originally Posted by What The View Post
Unless they forgive all debt owed to China as a result of recompense for the damage caused by the “China Virus”.
It is most definitely on the cards and the Commander in Chief is just mad enough to do it.
I hope we don’t head into war at the end of this. Tensions are high and nationalism is the mantra.

Accounting 101 says the borrower [USA in this case] can't forgive a debt to a lender [China]. It has to the other way round!
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 14:05
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Originally Posted by TBM-Legend View Post
Accounting 101 says the borrower [USA in this case] can't forgive a debt to a lender [China]. It has to the other way round!
Oh no. They will forgive it because they will say “sorry we are not paying you for our bonds, loans etc. and all is forgiven
Semantics
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 00:24
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This morning's diatribe is so misleading it almost qualifies as "fake news".

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/...6-billion-1993

"AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT GAVE QANTAS $3.26 BILLION IN 1993"

"The Australian government gave Qantas the 2020 equivalent of A$3.26 billion in 1993 to recapitalise the airline ahead of its float. The actual amount was A$1.35 billion but in 2020 dollars depending upon the measurement criteria that is up to A$5.63 billion."

This was back when Qantas was a government-owned airline! So yeah, okay, the government gave Qantas money when it owned Qantas. Big whoop. Up next: the Government gave money to Australia Post, or Medicare? GT is really going off the rails with this sensationalist clickbait nonsense which falls apart the moment you read past the headline and engage your brain and actually think. Not that he wants anybody to do that, he just wants people to look at the headline and pump their fists and shout for that billion dollar bail-out. Sad!
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 04:10
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Originally Posted by MelbourneFlyer View Post
This morning's diatribe is so misleading it almost qualifies as "fake news".

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/...6-billion-1993

"AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT GAVE QANTAS $3.26 BILLION IN 1993"

"The Australian government gave Qantas the 2020 equivalent of A$3.26 billion in 1993 to recapitalise the airline ahead of its float. The actual amount was A$1.35 billion but in 2020 dollars depending upon the measurement criteria that is up to A$5.63 billion."

This was back when Qantas was a government-owned airline! So yeah, okay, the government gave Qantas money when it owned Qantas. Big whoop. Up next: the Government gave money to Australia Post, or Medicare? GT is really going off the rails with this sensationalist clickbait nonsense which falls apart the moment you read past the headline and engage your brain and actually think. Not that he wants anybody to do that, he just wants people to look at the headline and pump their fists and shout for that billion dollar bail-out. Sad!
Well it was a little more complicated than that Melbourne Flyer. Below is an extract from the history books for those wanting some more reference. Governments and people have very short memories. The arguments of not assisting an essential service due to government policy (which has been necessary of course) are ludicrous. it goes without saying, Australia will be in a worse situation without VA post-COVID-19. Remember, VA are not asking for a handout - it's a loan to provide assurance for their survival.

'Change came swiftly and dramatically for Qantas in the mid-1990s. In June 1992, the Australian government approved Qantas's purchase of 100 percent of Australian Airlines' shares for AUD 400 million; in October 1993, the operations of Qantas and Australian Airlines were merged under a single brand: "Qantas--The Australian Airline." It was also announced in June 1992 that later that year 49 percent of Qantas would be sold through a trade sale, and the remaining 51 percent would be floated publicly during the first half of 1993. Foreign interests were to be allowed to invest up to 35 percent, with the Australian government retaining a "golden share." These plans were soon altered, however, when British Airways in late 1992 stepped in with an offer that was accepted--and completed in March 1993--to buy a 25 percent stake in Qantas for AUD 665 million ($470 million). The move was part of British Airways' push to create a global airline by forming a series of alliances, and it followed previous British Airways deals for 49 percent of TAT of France, 49 percent of Deutsche BA, and 31 percent of Air Russia. British Airways soon added a 25 percent stake in American carrier USAir. Meanwhile, in March 1993 the Australian government pumped AUD 1.35 billion into Qantas to enhance the company's competitive position ahead of privatization.'

Read more: https://www.referenceforbusiness.com...#ixzz6Jk0EKPff
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 04:19
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Meanwhile, in March 1993 the Australian government pumped AUD 1.35 billion into Qantas
Qantas was still owned by the government back then.

Why don't the owners of Virgin also pump some money into it ?

Also just a few months later
After a number of delays, the remainder of the Qantas float proceeded in 1995. The public share offer took place in June and July of that year, with the government receiving A$1.45 billion in proceeds
Can Virgin do the same a few months later?

History of Qantas

Last edited by John Citizen; 16th Apr 2020 at 04:59.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 04:35
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Originally Posted by planejane View Post
Meanwhile, in March 1993 the Australian government pumped AUD 1.35 billion into Qantas to enhance the company's competitive position ahead of privatization.'
It makes perfect sense to ensure that the newly-privatised Qantas would be on a competitive footing and thus in a position to deliver maximum returns.

Virgin Australia, on the other hand, is privately owned. Virgin can go and raise more money from private sources if it wants, and that appears to be what they're doing, and I hope they get the money from big Australian companies and investors who 'get' Virgin and what it's trying to do. But I can't justify over a billion dollars of taxpayer money, of debt which I and my kids will be saddled with, being used to prop up a private company.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 05:04
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Originally Posted by MelbourneFlyer View Post
It makes perfect sense to ensure that the newly-privatised Qantas would be on a competitive footing and thus in a position to deliver maximum returns.

Virgin Australia, on the other hand, is privately owned. Virgin can go and raise more money from private sources if it wants, and that appears to be what they're doing, and I hope they get the money from big Australian companies and investors who 'get' Virgin and what it's trying to do. But I can't justify over a billion dollars of taxpayer money, of debt which I and my kids will be saddled with, being used to prop up a private company.
OK, Melbourne Flyer that's your opinion and I'm not here to change it, but you do realise that you and your kids won't be burdened with this debt? It's a loan or part equity - not a grant as has been given to the regionals (Rex is over 60% foreigner owned). The main owners of VA are all airlines and where are they going to find the money now? Interestingly all (except Bransons' Virgin Atlantic) have been given government assistance (not a loan). Remember QF is 49% foreigner owned too. Are you going to whinge when AJ comes holding his hand out to prop up his airline.....again? BTW, if Joyce asks for government help, I'd support that too. As PS has stated many times - industry wide assistance is needed in these truely unprecedented times.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 05:19
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All the arguments about US bailouts and QF etc are largely irrelevant. Virgin is 91% foreign owned. Why should Australian tax payers bail out a company(s) that are not Australian is the real issue. If and when Virgin does make money, Australian investors see 9% of that. I don’t want to see Aussies loose there jobs but Aussie tax payers who are already doing it tough sending money overseas to prop up Middle Eastearn & Chinese companies is wrong.
Dead wrong.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 05:44
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In the interest of clarity, QF is currently sitting about 41% foreign owned. They divest huge dividends quite regularly. All that moola goes straight overseas. The reason they have huge dividends is because they don’t spend anything on their aircraft. Remember AJ has never ordered an aeroplane for QF and he’s been there for over a decade. Billions in dividends, zero on aircraft orders.

The Govt has already ‘picked a winner.’ That would be REX. Direct cash injections to keep operating to all those National Party seats and all that good Aussie cash going straight to the Singaporean’s anyway. Talk of a new entrant to fill the void shows a complete misunderstanding of the industry and what’s probably required post crisis.

As some have said, let’s take the emotion out of it. VA pilots obviously want to survive. QF pilots don’t want us to collapse but they are indifferent to it realistically. Forget about these two groups. That leaves the for and against groups in the wider community. Business, tourism, ACCC, Labour, some Libs, financiers, most jorno’s all seem to want VA to survive for the economies sake and for the good of Orstraya. Those want to see it go all seem somehow connected now or in the past to the mighty QF and it’s executive management. Bit of a theme there.

All I can do is wait......
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 06:30
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https://www.afr.com/companies/transp...0200415-p54jy9

I doubt virgin are winning many friends at the moment. The government want to underwrite domestic services but virgin are holding up the announcement. This announcement could get a few more of us back flying.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 06:45
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Originally Posted by No Idea Either View Post
In the interest of clarity, QF is currently sitting about 41% foreign owned. They divest huge dividends quite regularly. All that moola goes straight overseas. The reason they have huge dividends is because they don’t spend anything on their aircraft. Remember AJ has never ordered an aeroplane for QF and he’s been there for over a decade. Billions in dividends, zero on aircraft orders.

The Govt has already ‘picked a winner.’ That would be REX. Direct cash injections to keep operating to all those National Party seats and all that good Aussie cash going straight to the Singaporean’s anyway. Talk of a new entrant to fill the void shows a complete misunderstanding of the industry and what’s probably required post crisis.

As some have said, let’s take the emotion out of it. VA pilots obviously want to survive. QF pilots don’t want us to collapse but they are indifferent to it realistically. Forget about these two groups. That leaves the for and against groups in the wider community. Business, tourism, ACCC, Labour, some Libs, financiers, most jorno’s all seem to want VA to survive for the economies sake and for the good of Orstraya. Those want to see it go all seem somehow connected now or in the past to the mighty QF and it’s executive management. Bit of a theme there.

All I can do is wait......
Direct cash injections to Rex? When? #fakenews
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 06:46
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For the taxpayer to bail out Virgin would be akin to bailing out McDonalds Corp or Carnival cruises. They are not Australian businesses though do provide Aussie jobs. The "loan" comes with a nice little trap. If not paid back then the taxpayer gets equity in Virgin. That would open up a bottomless pit for the taxpayer for years to come. Forever being asked for more $'s to save their investment. No Thank you.
Look at the end of the day Virgin going belly up would be no different to Holden or any other large company going bust/leaving the country. We will all get over it. Someone else will come along eventually. In the meantime if Qantas has a monopoly and fares go up because of it,don't fly domestic.Take a train,bus or drive. They will soon get the message when loads don't rebound due to the cost.
I feel sorry for the employees just as I do for every other employee laid off ( I have been 3 times in my lifetime ) but life goes on. You are better off it Virgin dies now while there is money to pay out your entitlements than if they die broke.
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