A DEBATE THAT MUST BE HAD
 

This is a good read and offers some challenging views!

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/the-c...-shareholders/

Not one more cent. Not even one.

Snouts in the trough - Lobbying beyond belief and all designed to be hidden from the masses.

Let it go bankrupt, nationalise it and save the employees. Owners and managers can shove off.

I seriously want the government to help all employees nationwide, but there has to be a harsh quid pro quo for executives...no bonuses for ten years or until any aid is repaid. No share buy-backs ever again. Etc.

The author's point is irrelevant. QF have exactly the same private lounge setup. The question for the government is, do they want 10 000+ people made unemployed and have an entire country beholden to QF if it comes down to some form of Government Support?

The only solution to the ensuing monopoly will be to declare Open Skies. However if you hold a Chairman's Lounge Membership will you be really willing to vote for Open Skies domestically?

Well put, Australopithecus. :ok:

Of course they do. Where do you think JB got the idea from?

Yeah, lounges are another thing. In what ethical universe is it ok for politicians to accept largesse from an entity under their legislative control? I once operated a xmas flight to HNL with the then transport minister travelling with his family FOC. At least other countries have the decency to hide their corruption with a bit of flair. Ours are just pigs at the trough.

Alan Joyce and PR machine in full flight. 8000 got laid off today boys get the champagne out. Go on.

This ‘journalist’ has written a number of articles critical of Virgin.

Is he a member of the Chairman’s Lounge at QF?

The landscape just changed for Virgin/Tigers today!

I doubt it. he has been calling out Qantas as tax dodgers for years.

At the end of the day, we REALLY need a Federal ICAC to stamp out soft AND hard corruption, because, it ain't just airlines.

AND - we need to seriously curtail the government/business revolving door, address 'lobbying' and take the money out of politics.

Maybe after all this corona stuff is over, we can all take a good long look at ourselves, our society and governance, and work out a new social deal.

I don’t SA was part of that group. Straight shooter from what I’ve seen.

First step is an enquiry into 2010-18.

On the topic of the club there was a rumor getting about that it had no budget during the build.

They weren't laid off. Get your facts straight.

Bit touchy there.

Celebrate nonetheless, one step close to monopoly.

machtuk, crawl back under your rock.

No I will not celebrate at all. I have many good friends at VA. Take your disgusting attitude elsewhere.

What a joke of an article. Someone sounds pissed off he didn't get an invite.

gee you are an angry little man aren't you?

machtuk , you contribute nothing.
It is not possible to exaggerate this seriousness of this situation for employees at Qantas , Virgin and many others in the aviation industry.
A level of gravitas is required when commenting. Something you lack.
Go away.

Ok sure, you’re getting a little emotional.

Where are the VA shareholders that should be looking after their most important asset; the staff?

Why is it always the gummit that is asked to solve the issues...?

What a horrible world we live in. As if the world is not going through enough. I am pretty sure the OP works for Qantas, from previous posting history.

They couldnt but help post such a pathetic piece of so called journalism. The irony is that Qantas has been doing the same for a LOT longer. Now if the so called journalist had mentioned both did the same and it was a balanced article, it wouldnt be so bad.

For people to gloat about 8000 staff being stood down without any income or 300+ pilots tonight without a job, is simply disgusting and immoral. A number of pilots in Ansett commited suicide after it went under. My guess there will be others here as well.

What a horrible industry and horrible people. To wish bad on others is disgusting. You people are pathetic. I hope you all get what you deserve.

like a fly to ****

Yes QF do the same. But i must be the only person who thinks the point of the article is about whether public money should be used to prop up an airline that isn't Australian owned.

It is not the same as keeping people employed?

How about the government went to every employee and simply paid what they were earning at the commencement of such measures and pay that for the next 6 months. Would that be more palatable to QF employees and management?

Not defending QF but the point of the article is that the government will be bailing out a foreign owned company when they have 1 billion in cash, have already stood down 90% of their workforce, are receiving aid from the GOV and all the while the real foreign owners sit back and chill.

Hear hear! Save the staff and let the psychopaths burn.

I would say that any political party who runs with this policy would take an election by a landslide.

STAND TOGETHER, HELP EACH OTHER, STOP the whatever.
 

As many have said and experienced finding oneself out of work is disastrous.

This is so much worse than Ansett as every industry is collapsing. How hard is it going to be to get a job?

Then add in the frustration of not doing what you love to do.

The world has changed, hopefully very temporararily.

Who gives a fcuk who you work for, support each other. Have a google at how many airlines around the world are on the brink, how many staff are out of work, it filters right down and this is only one industry.

What can be done??? What will be done??? But remember we are all one, we all breathe and I for one want everyone to continue to breathe. If ya see someone down, ask the question, suicidal is a final hole.....

Rant well and truly over but stand together!

Let's keep the conversation civil and constructive - there isn't any need to restore to the ad hominem.

As I said. there are some challenging views expressed in the article that could apply equally to Qantas and Virgin Australia. If anyone looks at https://www.michaelwest.com.au, they will find Qantas is just as much in the gun as is Virgin, perhaps more so. :ok:

So if the government did somehow financially support Virgin, would you people be happier if that then bought them an equity stake in the business?

Or is it that the government shouldn’t have its hand in any package at all? And I suppose the government shouldn’t be helping the farmers during a drought? And they shouldn’t be helping the communities of the bushfires either?

Some of you need to wake up - this is a once in a lifetime event. The damage that this will do to the entire economy is heading towards something very very significant. If you don’t think QF is going to need assistance in the future, you’re also kidding yourself.

There are articles suggesting only 20 main airlines around the world will survive this - does anyone think that this is a good thing?

I’m hoping this government is smart enough to realise that the airline industry in this country plays a significant part in the economy - although it’s unlikely considering how much they stuffed this whole thing up in the first place.

A monopoly in the airline industry is likely to slow any economic recovery. If prices suddenly jump to $400 a ticket to go ML SY because there isn’t any competition - people won’t travel!

The virus isn’t anyone’s fault - but the governments direct decisions have resulted in the closing down of the airline industry. The PM is out there saying that people should not travel domestically and has banned international travel. A DIRECT outcome is that both airlines essentially have no revenue. The PM announced funds for small and medium sized business, but has announced very little for the industry that has had the direct impact of the travel restriction (Of the $700m announced, some are fees to refunded, others are the waiving of taxes and levies that only apply when aircraft are flying - which they aren’t). I’m baffled by that - I truly am.

For what it’s worth - I doubt the government will offer any assistance (if they do - it should be to both major airlines and Rex as well as they all provide an essential service). And because the government won’t help - there is a significant chance Virgin Australia won’t survive. And it’s disgusting that seems to please some people here.

"There are articles suggesting only 20 main airlines around the world will survive this - does anyone think that this is a good thing?"

Last weeks "Economist" forecast that one certain result of the crisis is that the biggest firms in any sector will get bigger - Apple for example have 6 years of cash reserves right now - they'll be able to buy anyonelese who survives - same will happen in the airline business

Farmers and individuals who are ACTUALLY struggling following a natural disaster should be helped, no strings attached.

Multi billion dollar companies with large boards of multi millionaires well known for their money first approach to corporate “ethics” shouldn’t get that benefit; their staff should. The company involved should lose some of their autonomy and the benefactors should become partners as it were. I am
more than happy for our nations airlines to be wholly or partially nationalised.

Granted this is a once in a generation event, but don’t think for a minute that our corporate “leaders” won’t milk it to their benefit.

I’m hoping this government is smart enough to realise that the airline industry in this country plays a significant part in the economy

It's all good...their "Club" & "Chairmans" lounge memberships see to that! :)

Au contraire, but it is.

And that responsible entity needs to make reparations to everyone for the economic and social damage their culinary peculiarities have caused.

Luckily they “own” 40% of VA they may like to relinquish this to the Aussie taxpayer as a sign of their good faith.

I’m hoping this government is smart enough to realise that the airline industry in this country plays a significant part in the economy

It's all good...their "Club" & "Chairmans" lounge memberships see to that! :)

Having your corner store burn down is a “Once in a lifetime” event yet I don’t think government will be rushing in.

**** Qantas. They play the “national treasure” game when it suits them and the “international airline of no fixed address” as well.

To be a national treasure in my opinion would require:

- no foreign shareholding’s.

- complete onshore maintenance and overhaul of the entire fleet, and engines. A national defence asset.

- Solely Australian staff with no outsourcing.

- schedules, pricing and service levels that recognize the huge economic importance of direct air travel to ALL Australian capitals, tourist destinations and regional centres and provide a nationally level economic playing field.

Since Qantas doesn’t do any of that, it is just a ******* leach. No better than McDonalds, KFC, Subway, Sunglass hut, etc.

It’s a pity that you bought the “professionalism” BS. Your management thinks you are just the same as fast food waiters.

People will surprise you. Just don’t let the disaster go to waste. Take back control of your country from the lobbiests and political donors.

Sunfish

Ok so
- Australia is wholly Australian owned???
-Australia imports nothing???
-No foreigners in Australia???
-Everything is cheap here??

Not very realistic buddy!

Soupie, Qantas plays both sides. That is the problem. It’s international when it suits or a fuzzy koala when the time is right like now - when it wants to cuddle up and suck up taxpayer dollars. But it’s worse!

Get this! Just last week it was threatening Australian pilots that if they didn’t agree to new pay scales, they would create an offshore entity to crew A350’s! Read the Pprune threads! That is what they threatened - offshoring!

..And today they are a warm furry Koala!!

**** them!