Qantas will not order A350
 

Only my opinion but i am thinking now there is even more likelihood that they will.
They have got the pilots deal they wanted,they have got a delay on the date they have to order by & with the cessation of flying for god knows how long by many airlines the manufacturers will be ready to sign deals at never before seen prices & terms which could well be backed by government guarantees both on the manufacturers & airlines sides.
The delay in order time will not matter,many airlines will be rushing to give up delivery slots.

Once again V-Jet your "facts" are way out of the ball park. I'm on annual leave. Not stood down. Annual leave. Please refer to your FAQ that was emailed to you. That means I have a job. You can stop with the scaremongering comments now mate. 85% of the pilots don't agree with you. Looks like another one of your "facts" has been busted.

That's fake news. Another incorrect "fact" from V-Jet.

Perhaps your resignation? That would be some great news.

It used to be, when pilots were paid well, that many invested in developing a second career option against the possibility of losing their medical certificate, at least that was what I was told anecdotally. I think it’s probably still a good idea today.

One of the few pieces of wisdom I’ve picked along the way is this: There is no security in being employed. There is security in being employable.

That myth needs to be debunked now and forever. No one is getting a 60% pay cut. For that to be true current pilots would have been making $1m per year to be cut down to the proposed $400k for a 350 Captain. See how ludicrous that sounds?

And the No camp wonder why they only got 15%? Maybe they should get out of their bubble. I think that figure wouldn’t have been too different to the final figure even if this pandemic had not occurred.

$400k for Capt, $260k for FO to fly a widebody jet with some of the best protections in aviation is solid gold in the current environment. I bet every single one of the world’s currently non flying airline pilots (80-90% of the total) would crawl over broken glass to work under those conditions.

Be thankful and grateful for what you’ve gotten.

What a pathetic post that is.

We need the Donald Trump fact checker on V-Jet's posts.

Tino's starting point was a $30mil. P.A. reduction in the pilot wages bill for the projected flying after bonuses and 3%'s and everything they 'gave'.

They were successful. Their ultimatum ensured it would be.

Whether that's 1%, 10% or 50% is largely irrelevant.

I'm sure Airbus will be happy to sign a contract with QF that allows for "flexibility" - for a small fee. They were quoted in Flight last week saying they effectively "over-sell" their production because hey know people will delay, pull out etc - the manufacturing equivalent of over-booking flights. I'm sure they figure that point-to-point has received a boost from intermediate stops closing during the virus at very short notice. People suddenly routing via Darwin (QF) or the West Indies (Air Tahiti Nui) will be more interested in non-stop in future.....................

Normo, you would have to agree (well a magistrate would) that so far you are a beneficiary of this unmitigated disaster. You aren’t working.

My original post stands and if you can’t see what I’ve posted as relevant you don’t get it, So far, you are being paid to do nothing. When that finishes, let me assure you, ALL BETS ARE OFF.

You might quibble over terms and whether you stay up all night every night, or all night every second night etc, but in essence pilots have taken a massive pay and health cut. It’s a complete nonsense to suggest otherwise.

The Company is in survival mode. The vote was put before the cataclysm and was voted on accordingly. Make no mistake, that will be used as a management argument,

The vote will be used by management where it suits and discarded where it suits, Its almost irrelevant what the vote was, the wages given away by pilots will be paid, just not to pilots. Well done there,

But what’s more important is that I seriously doubt the massive pay cuts voted for will even be granted, The new argument will be ‘you were so happy to do more work for less, that we can now demand xxxxx’

You’re a genius salesperson Normo! You’re not alone, I’ve come across some equally deluded characters in the last few months. I hope you have a good family around you when you may have to be fed through a straw because your brain doesn’t function when you’re 65. If it’s not you, it WILL be one of your workmates, Remember that comment - it will come back to haunt you in time. You will start by laughing and deriding, But I’m confident that the way I’ve expressed it that will sink in enough for you to remember when that time comes.

Congratulations on all the work you are doing at the moment!!!

Make the most of every single moment you have of your life right now. You’ve voted on a futures contract that I suspect you have zero understanding of the reality of. I would -LOVE- to be wrong, But I’m so sure I’m not, I’m prepared for public embarrassment to say so.

Start looking around for quality nursing homes and what that market involves. It’s worth staying abreast of the market - and be very aware of what you are able to afford.

V-Jet

Just piss off will you!

You're diatribe is not wanted!

Good riddance

That, right there, is why keyboards should have alcohol interlock devices.

V-Jet. V for vannus Latin for fan.

As in the sh1t has hit the ...

V-Jet isn't exactly wrong though. The yes voters willingly agreed to 190-200hr rosters as we know them. What's that going to look/feel like?

Or was that a secondary consideration? QF will be disappointed they didn't go harder - luckily they get a lot more chances.

why did the NO camp only get 15%? After all the arguments and raving on here it sounds like they just weren't convinced??

Because once the ultimatum had been put in place it no longer became a vote to accept a set of conditions and remuneration but a vote on whether or not the pilots wanted to have another group fly the 350; the conditions became largely irrelevant unfortunately.

Thanks nice to see a clear post without all the usual ravings and finger pointing :ok:

Qantas pilots played the game by handing over 30% pay cuts for the A350 orders that HAD to ordered by 31st March. How many have Qantas formally ordered - seeing as the deadline has passed and pilots dutifully complied?

I know there’s a lot going on...but dude. Keep up if you’re going to post up! :)

:D


Found a pic of V-Jet and his mates (before social distancing laws were introduced)...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8694a65e1.jpeg

Ill put this out there... Yes we will be working harder than ever for Sunrise etc. But having a couple weeks out there looking for a job outside aviation has made me realise that there are plenty jobs out there where you work harder, are more stressed, pay 75% less and get zero satisfaction out of. I won’t be the first guinea pig to put my hand up for 22 hour duties, but drink through a straw at 65 or whatever the ever so dramatic V-Jet puts forward, so be it. 85% of pilots voted for it so you are clearly the minority V-Jet.

It’s aviation. Leave the industry or move on. If Sunrise didn’t happen this decade it would have happened the next. And then there will be pilotless aeroplanes one day. Rant over, good luck everyone, hope you are holding up ok

V-Jet. Your 30% pay cut has been BUSTED by the Trump fact checker. Take your lies elsewhere.

You think the package was bad? The pay at the external company would have been a jaw dropper! And better yet, those T&C used against you in future EBA negotiations.

Learn when to call it quits mate. Your argument is far more destructive then whats been achieved with the YES vote.

This is going to be a good one to hold on to for a few year's time!

Well it seems QF have taken the biggest punt in the game right now.
There are no plans to fly any four engine aircraft. The last 380 reconfiguration is being completed as they were already contractually obligated to do so. A deal has been made with airbus for an early delivery on 10 X 350s due to other carriers pulling the plug. Fasten your seatbelts. Post-COVID will see one hell of a RIN and extremely likely job losses.

Sounds a pretty good plan to me!

This might preserve some of the jobs COVID is destined to destroy. One hell of a RIN was already assured before your rumour.

Some on Cdash, tell us your sources !!

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-tra...137820.article and his crystal ball 🤣

I think those affected by this (if it's true) will just be held on indefinite stand down until there are positions available, rather than costly redundancies occurring. The 4 engined fleets are the most senior meaning retraining then redundancy would be cost prohibitive.

If you think QF will RIN a 380 captain to 787/330, only to RIN a 787/330 captain to FO, only to RIN a 787/330 FO to SO, only to make a 787/330 SO redundant in the current climate, you will be severely mistaken. It doesn't make sense, it's a waste of cash, and HR have told us there is no legal time line on the stand down notice. They could stand you down for 10 years, and there is noting you can do about it.

What dr_dre has said is exactly what will happen. Long periods of stand down, no redundancy payments, and lots of pilots taking LWOP, taking an alternative career, or pulling the pin and retiring early.

What a year 2020 will be.

And of course HRs word is gospel isn’t it.

All I would add is in my interpretation:
there won’t be an indefinite stand down for a fleet. This is because the stand down (as opposed to other methods of managing a surplus) applies while the aircraft don’t fly. So For example, if the A380 never flew again the stand down could only apply for as long as the a380s were still parked and operational in QF colours. As soon as they were sold or discarded a RIN must occur and the stand down ends. I doubt QF would keep an aircraft just to avoid redundancy payouts.

It explains the lack of announcements regarding the 747, when everyone knows it has almost no chance of further operations. At the very least the waters are very muddy on this issue.

Keeping a 747 or 380 on the books would be cheaper than retraining all their pilots onto other fleets, and then the subsequent residual back bids, 2/3rds of LH would be getting retrained at the same time. And with those fleets barely flying as it is how can any retraining occur?

Not just this year, this'll go on for quite a few. Although I do believe all current pilots will have the opportunity to return to something, it will throw up the issue of retraining a large group of pilots who have spent quite a few years out of the flight deck.

Another possibility is a court case to enable the airline to make redundancy where they fall. That would be probably cheaper than pushing a 60 year old Captain onto a 787, retraining him only to have him retire or be forced on again to the 737 come 65.

It is a mess no two ways about it. If the 747s still had a buyer and they depart then IMO you can’t avoid a RIN on that aircraft.Then there is also VR , a minimum of 26 weeks or if that doesn’t work CR but I believe that can’t be targeted.

Don’t worry jocks.... we’ve got the LHers take over on AIPA......

soon we will see the implimentation of their CUNning plan

probaby a 6 % increase in a380 pay in de werks :ok:

maKe AIPA Grate agin:}

And that's exactly it - 100%. They wont announce the 747 retirement because it will mean a RIN, and right now they cant afford it.

The chief pilots exact words: "at an appropriate time we will follow the RIN process".

It's much better than yours, that's for sure. Whats even better is that it actually makes sense because it saves them cash, and they have the legislation to back it.

and his crystal ball 🤣[/QUOTE]

Starting to think my crystal ball is unserviceable, otherwise I would have given up the good life and bid for a slot on the game changer when I had the chance.

There will be a RIN in some capacity but I can assure you TLS will do all he can to open the EA and chop and change us all as they see fit $$$. As the saying goes, QF will never waste a good a good crisis and this is a window for them to do so. Do not assume your seniority number will be your saving grace if you’re currently on the 380 or 747.

The RIN on the 747 will happen and positions will be on fleets that can carry a surplus and that surplus will continue on probably agreed lower divisors until the extra 787s arrive and the 350s alleviate the surplus on the 330. No knock on demotions, no redundancies and lots of retirements over the next few years is the word Ive got. Gotta remember QF haven't got a very big fleet of aircraft, the RIN on the 747 is for a total of 5 aircraft. At least 6 of the 380s will make a return initially so again revised lower divisors, and retirements will mange that aircraft until demand picks up. Might see the old divisor of something like 132 being reintroduced as a temporary measure. 737 can also carry a surplus with divisors being cut to 55 hours as a further option as it will be the first fleet to experience any form of normality until restrictions of international travel are lifted. These scenarios save money in the long run and keep good operational staff occupied instead of chasing other options and are there ready to go when it all picks up.
The sky isn't falling in.

Re 737...can carry a surplus with current crew. Can’t train surplisncrew from
other fleets onto 737 with a divisor of 55

Yep. Can’t train to the 737 unless the average divisor is above something (68hours?) It won’t be there for some time. Also, the 737 can’t be involved in a RIN. So it won’t be a place for a surplus for anybody,

Hypothetical: the company has the A380 grounded for over 12 months, but (assuming this rumour is true) puts the A350 into service in the meantime. How many A380 crew would, if offered and within seniority rules, move to the A350 outside a RIN, just to get back to work and get a pay check?