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Qantas to get A321 NEO
Qantas are rumoured to be on the verge of announcing plans to introduce A321NEOs to shorthaul operations utilising some of Bruce Buchannan’s A320 bonanza buying spree options. Might even be as soon as the first half results.
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Flown by...? I’d also heard the short haul replacement type announcement was imminent. Tomorrow might be the day! |
They have to go somewhere!!! |
Originally Posted by SOPS
(Post 10395619)
They have to go somewhere!!! |
Originally Posted by Transition Layer
(Post 10395526)
Flown by...?
Well, all the sulky Ozmates returning from Knoteetingham with fresh Airboos ratings, obvs! (and runs) |
That would be awesome! Fair Work would have everyone on the SH award. |
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No new aircraft QF Domestic making record profits again, great news as there is no reason for the SH pilots to accept a sub standard deal JQ Domestic also doing well QF International profitable |
Originally Posted by InZed
(Post 10395995)
Rumour is that they’re also in talks with NZ to integrate their A321 flying also with the same group of pilots under the new QF/NZ joint venture. |
$2 Billion on fuel. (Up 27%). I wonder if they had of just given the bonus without the strings attached what this would of been. I’m guessing the Joyce Juice would of been a lot less! |
Originally Posted by InZed
(Post 10395995)
Rumour is that they’re also in talks with NZ to integrate their A321 flying also with the same group of pilots under the new QF/NZ joint venture.
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^^I’m pretty sure InZed was joking... |
NEO 321? Incredible machine, Boeing have no answer nor do Virgin (at this stage).
Perfect timing with the SH eba. The old carrot, only issue is that SH 737 guys wouldn’t really want to fly a NEO. |
Oh, it's EBA time, must have something to scare the worker's with...
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Originally Posted by Berealgetreal
(Post 10396106)
NEO 321? Incredible machine, Boeing have no answer nor do Virgin (at this stage).
Perfect timing with the SH eba. The old carrot, only issue is that SH 737 guys wouldn’t really want to fly a NEO. |
Just saying it looks impressive, was hoping Max10 could match the range. In Europe it’s opening up new routes.
The other point was that it might not be the carrot people might think. |
Originally Posted by SMT Member
(Post 10395700)
(Lobs hand grenade)
Well, all the sulky Ozmates returning from Knoteetingham with fresh Airboos ratings, obvs! (and runs) However, if they were to add “Link” on the fuselage and a few rows of lie-flat sleeper Business seats, then it’d be an entirely different story unfortunately :( |
And on which new routes would the ‘Link’ comfy seats be put on....because it wouldn’t be on an existing Mainline route unless Mainline capacity miraculously increased further. |
There are currently rumours Qantas will be announcing an order of 737 MAX, A321neo, A330neo, A350, 788's returning from Jetstar and 777X. There was even a recent rumour of additional A380's (that rumour is probably dead now!) Believe what you like, however AJ hasn't ordered any aircraft for Qantas since becoming CEO. New aircraft orders are not good for his share price!! |
Correct! AJ also has a habit of over promising but under delivering. Potential aircraft orders...meh...real improvements in lifestyle and conditions..ding ding ding ding. Nov 2020 may just reinforce what AJ Qantas tenure will be remembered for. |
Why buy aircrafts when you can buy back shares? Those LTI options are not going to vest thenselves! |
Originally Posted by goodonyamate
(Post 10396056)
QF Domestic making record profits again, great news as there is no reason for the SH pilots to accept a sub standard deal JQ Domestic also doing well QF International profitable, hit by fuel costs but the increase in the first half will be fully recovered in the second half, so no reason to take flight plan fuel everywhere smoke and haze around JQ international, nothing disclosed as usual. |
Originally Posted by Going Boeing
(Post 10396393)
QF International profitable, hit by fuel costs & STILL HAVING TO PAY SOME OF JQ INTERNATIONAL’s BILLS. |
Originally Posted by -438
(Post 10396200)
There are currently rumours Qantas will be announcing an order of 737 MAX, A321neo, A330neo, A350, 788's returning from Jetstar and 777X. There was even a recent rumour of additional A380's (that rumour is probably dead now!) Believe what you like, however AJ hasn't ordered any aircraft for Qantas since becoming CEO. New aircraft orders are not good for his share price!! |
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Spoken as a Boeing guy, I'd prefer a 320/321/350 mix for everything if fleet commonality and strealined training paths were actually a thing. I think the 321 NEO and 350 both work very well in their respective roles, as probably will the 777-X. The 737Max is a sad answer to the 321...it’s an aeroplane that has roots that go halfway back to the Wright Bros. Lots of lipstick, but still a pig. Whatever they decide it will be at odds with the hopes of at least half of us, it will be too little, and it will be too late. |
Here’s my guesses... Sunrise/380 replacement - mixture of A350-900 and -1000 (16 total) A330 North Asian (thinner routes) international flying replaced by B787 including 787-10s - (total fleet numbers around 40) A330 domestic transcon and triangle, plus thinner short haul international replaced by 797 - (fleet of around 30) Traditional domestic flying and off peak triangle/transcon replaced by 737 MAX 8 (60 aircraft) So basically the versatile 797 picks up a portion of 737 and 330 flying, and the 787 does the long thin routes it does now in addition to most of the Asian A330 stuff apart from SIN. 737 MAXs replace the oldest of the 737 fleet and the long lead time on the 797 ties in well with the retirement of the newest aircraft in the 737 fleet. You’d end up with a Mainline fleet of approximately 140 aircraft versus 129 in 2020 when the 744s go and next tranche of 787s have arrived. An eye watering amount of capex whichever way you look at it :ooh: |
Originally Posted by Transition Layer
(Post 10397074)
An eye watering amount of capex whichever way you look at it :ooh:
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I think you’ve got that very wrong. Qantas will put A321 neos on the triangle/trans cont and phase out the 330s. The 737 fleet will be replaced by 320/321 neos There will be token 787 services connecting to Europe on the west coast side and the americas on the east coast side. Mainline will get the 787s from JQ which will become an all A320/321 operator. The 787-8 will probably do transcont and thin long distance routes. They will look at the 797. The A350 will be the project sunrise winner. Despite the 777 being a great aeroplane, it’s an older design and with AJs emphasis on new technology, it’s a new generation of jet. This will replace 380s and they will get 20-30 of them. |
From what I understand the tanks are the same size. The engines are de-rated and the config is more dense. Which is why they don’t have the range. The origanal plan at JQ was to take the -8s setup the network, take some -9s and give the -8s back to QF as transcontinental machines. Hence why they were setup without crew rest etc. |
Originally Posted by Transition Layer
(Post 10397074)
Here’s my guesses... Sunrise/380 replacement - mixture of A350-900 and -1000 (16 total) A330 North Asian (thinner routes) international flying replaced by B787 including 787-10s - (total fleet numbers around 40) A330 domestic transcon and triangle, plus thinner short haul international replaced by 797 - (fleet of around 30) Traditional domestic flying and off peak triangle/transcon replaced by 737 MAX 8 (60 aircraft) So basically the versatile 797 picks up a portion of 737 and 330 flying, and the 787 does the long thin routes it does now in addition to most of the Asian A330 stuff apart from SIN. 737 MAXs replace the oldest of the 737 fleet and the long lead time on the 797 ties in well with the retirement of the newest aircraft in the 737 fleet. You’d end up with a Mainline fleet of approximately 140 aircraft versus 129 in 2020 when the 744s go and next tranche of 787s have arrived. An eye watering amount of capex whichever way you look at it :ooh: |
Oh, it's EBA time, must have something to scare the worker's with... 'Project Sunset' So long has Little Napoleon talked of new aircraft that his covert team realised the industry long ago re-equipped and moved on and that the sun has set... |
Originally Posted by MACH082
(Post 10397154)
From what I understand the tanks are the same size. The engines are de-rated and the config is more dense. Which is why they don’t have the range. The origanal plan at JQ was to take the -8s setup the network, take some -9s and give the -8s back to QF as transcontinental machines. Hence why they were setup without crew rest etc. The engines are 70k (although originally 64k) 335 seats 30 tonnes less MTOW so range would be about the same. (Average 4.5 t/hour burn) As for the second part, that sounds like it could have been possible, the -8 would be a good City Flyer machine. |
As for the second part, that sounds like it could have been possible, the -8 would be a good City Flyer machine. They were to replace the aging 767 fleet, offering dual aisle capacity that was needed in space constrained monopoly airports. It is with more than a little irony that Little Napoleon complains of carpark charges and congestion when his fleet plan created a lot of it airside at domestic airports country wide. Instead Boston Bruce Buchanan then CEO of JQ, pitched the board that JQ was to get a few, then all the 788. His reasoning was that ironically long haul low cost didn't work. It still doesn't but that is another discussion. Instead Little Napoleon's preoccupation with JQ now sees QF domestic denied an aircraft that would have provided brand differentiation, yield potential and the ability to swing capacity when needed. Instead QF cram 737 aircraft into already crowded terminal areas, onto crowded aprons and congested runways and have the temerity to claim that it is 'efficient' |
30 tonnes less MTOW so range would be about the same. |
The higher thrust engines and increased max takeoff weight of the -9 mean it can fill the tanks to the brim and carry a reasonable load. You cant fill the tanks up in a 335 seat -8 and expect to carry 335 punters. The ZFW of both is not hugely different from what I understand. |
Originally Posted by Beer Baron
(Post 10397244)
Not sure about that. The 30T lower MTOW equates to about 345 passengers, and the stretched fuselage is not 30T heavier so unless the -8 is flying empty then the -9 will have a greater range.
Anyway, the QF 787 training manager has flown both so I’m sure he will be able to provide the numbers if this was to happen. If there was any swapping of -8 for -9 or vis versa, you can guarantee it won’t be done until the new EA’s are signed off in favour of the company. |
Originally Posted by -438
(Post 10396200)
There are currently rumours Qantas will be announcing an order of 737 MAX, A321neo, A330neo, A350, 788's returning from Jetstar and 777X. There was even a recent rumour of additional A380's (that rumour is probably dead now!) Believe what you like, however AJ hasn't ordered any aircraft for Qantas since becoming CEO. New aircraft orders are not good for his share price!! |
Originally Posted by Roj approved
(Post 10397389)
Yes Beer Baron, I see your point. The Basic Empty Weights difference wouldn’t be much, but QF wouldn’t have much over 200 in an -8, so the tanks could be filled and the range would be similar.
Anyway, the QF 787 training manager has flown both so I’m sure he will be able to provide the numbers if this was to happen. If there was any swapping of -8 for -9 or vis versa, you can guarantee it won’t be done until the new EA’s are signed off in favour of the company. Saying that, and knowing the current management it’s probably on the cards!! |
That’s going to be the conundrum with the 797. The A321neo can carry over 200 in a dual class layout, and can do up to 4000nm. The 797 will have to be keenly priced and offer significant savings for it to be worthwhile. The A321neo a very capable machine. Which is why I think the days are numbered for 787s at JQ. |
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