Hawke Ailing?
 

Saw him on TV last night, and he certainly looked his age.

How appropriate. Hawke is 89! He may get the last laugh after all. :}

Why the appalling comments..?

Octane because he's the prick who called in the National Defense Forces (& everyone else) to break a Union strike.
Never seen before! Not for a Tram Strike / Beer Strike / Wharvies Strike / Railways Strike / Bus strike... the list goes on!
I wasn't part of it but it certainly stopped my career in it's tracks.
Many "youngens" disregard History but only to their own detriment. History is important to know, all sides of it!

Chocks Away,
Not quite correct, it was a Labor government put the army in, wharfies and coal miners, in years gone buy.
'89 was not a strike, (almost) everybody in the domestics resigned. A very significant difference, it is important to stick to facts.
Tootle pip!!

Any leader who publicly denigrates an entire profession without any idea what he's talking about deserves to be remembered as the dimwit he is. His legacy gave birth to the shambles of an industry we have today and to the dim view most people have of what we do. The appalling comments Octane are due to the residual anger from the injustices of 1989.

Twice in history was the Military called in to break a strike. During the war(1942) and 1989. Both were Labor Governments. My father was involved before going to New Guinea on 1942. He was spate at by the striking wharfies. Ironically they loaded supplies they would later use in New Guinea to fight the Japanese. Appalling behaviour during World War 2 but I personally think 1989 was the end of the Labor Party as a party for the Battlers. Both Hawke and Keating went on to live in the Eastern Suburbs in million dollar mansions. Hardly representing the downtrodden.

I have no time for Hawke but even less time for the domestic pilots and their 30% pay grab in 89.Led by a megalomaniac who would destroy the economy and tourist industry and wreck the lives of thousands,you blokes should be ashamed.

Oh man. . . from EFFEN Q ......how EFFEN TRUE (should it so transpire). . . .. . YOU'LL DO !

By the way, Brad Norington, who wrote the twisted, distorted one-eyed "SKY PIRATES" is now a big editorial wheel at THE AUSTRALIAN. He is in today's. (yes .. . I still buy that Murdoch rag .. . for it's better content . . .. though Captain Byron Bailey does not always qualify.)

From what I hear, his grave site will be cheap to upkeep - there wont be any need to water or fertilise it..

and you should go and wash your mouth out . .. for your lack of grasp of the truth . . . and your total ignorance of the evil collusion that preceded the 24th of August 1989. (You might have lost a few quid , on your blacksoil plain) but loyal men and women lost their loved ones . .. . and of that there is proof positive ....if anyone ever bothered to do the detailed research.) But Redned, reading what he has posted on this subject over the years, is well and truly in the camp of the 'untouchables' and hence does not know half of it.

Ramble On,

Agreed. When the subject passes away there will be a continuous flight past of noisy aircraft over the funeral.

I wonder how many airline pilots took their lives as a result being forced out of work because of the strike and the strike breaking?

Initials ?

Just for the record LeadSled, it might not have been a strike but having a lawsuit slapped on you for breach of contract required a dramatic response. The wrong one as it turned out.
I went through the whole debacle and came to the conclusion long ago that NOBODY came out of that sh#t fight with their reputations enhanced. Incompetence and blind belligerence all round.
I blame AFAP leadership as much as Hawke. Just very sad so many junior pilots, who simply doing as they were told ,suffered so much.
Taught me to trust my own judgement and be very, very careful when you entrust your future to those in "authority".

It'll be worth the airfare from Adelaide to join the queue ....................

There were moderates in the AFAP, whose ability to hold confidential talks, before the law suits, with the men on the other side , from the PM down, has not been recognised or documented. The Hawke/Abeles collusion has also not been considered in any depth.

When Abeles confronted members of the AFAP in his office, his foul and abusive language, and the thug-like threats that he made, are recorded in diary entries made by some of the pilots in the forefront of the fray.

Wrong, redned . .. . . .contract negotiations of expired contracts had stalled. The AFAP executive sought a means to force the airlines to the arbitration table. It was dicks like Norington who put about the lie of 30% pay claims.

And Pilot Terms and Conditions and Pay across the World today, say he was correct.

Unless Bob ruled the the World of aviation and made the rest follow.

I was there in 89. One of the worst mistakes of my carer signing that crap letter of resignation under intense pressure from those that should have know better. Those there will know what I'm talking about.

It is impossible at this remove to fully understand what persuaded the AFAP executive to accept what they thought
was the very best advice from a top silk. Could anyone, with even half a brain and a crystal ball at the time, predict that the RAAF would be called in and that scores of overseas airline pilots and their own airlines would be offered lucrative contracts to fly in and be in effect strike breakers. (But, as has been pointed out time and time again,on a technicality, there was never any strike as such.)

Is that the one booked next to the lying rodents plot?

Is my memory correct that the 27% included a "catch-up" component due to previous freezes on the then CPI increases over the years? (It may not have been automatic CPI increases as such like today but increases nonetheless awarded by some wages commission/authority etc - someone can elaborate on that aspect).

IIRC, if the percentage CPI increase exceeded a certain dollar figure, then any increase was capped at that figure. Over time and in real terms, this effectively meant a slow erosion of salaries for those higher incomes.

Sounds very contemporary, except if you are a CEO!

"It is impossible at this remove to fully understand what persuaded the AFAP executive to accept what they thought
was the very best advice from a top silk."

Legal advise is advise, rarely direction. The industrial leadership of the AFAP was well aware of the potentially catastrophic consequences of following that advice. The Pilot leadership overruled them.
Its all ancient history now but its still a salutary lesson for a younger generation in the consequences of arrogance , hubris and plain old lack of judgement by mediocre people in leadership positions. Add to that an inability to empathize with your opponents position and you have a recipe for disaster.
Hawke and Kelty did what they had to do to defend the Wages Accord, and what any competent opponent would have expected them to do.
AFAP leadership were out of their depth. Blaming Hawke or Abeles for their failure is futile.
Younger generations take note.

George Glass,
I largely agree with you, but the domestic leaders had plenty of warning that they could not and would not succeed in taking Hawke head on -- and it was not just a matter of Hawke's ego.
The "wages accord" was central to Labor economic policy, no way were Hawke and Kelty going to allow airline pilots undermine that!! That was the core of the Government position.
The Chairman of the OSB warned of all that, he was (in modern terminology) no-platformed at a mass meeting of domestics in Melbourne.
As for all the "strike breakers", a strategy based on;" We are irreplaceable, the Government can'r do a, b, c and d and we will win" only required the Government to do "a, b,c and d" and you lose.
Said OSB Chairman spelled out exactly what was going to happen if the domestics continued --- he was sadly proved correct in almost every respect.
Tootle pip!!

cessnapete methinks you mean B767's.

CC

Nope, A300B4's

This despicable grub and his mates put a pay rise for themselves through in late '88 that was larger than the famous 29.47%. The golliwog is no better.

My understanding is that at the end of the "strike" the pay rise given to the pilots was greater than that than was asked before the dispute.

But it was actually a concession on work/hours/rosters that was required to get the large pay increase for the pilots.

Give and take is required in negotiations - arrogance is not.

What is arrogance?

Many would say SLF are arrogant, others the persons that termed the phrase SLF as being the arrogant ones.

Bottom line is the front of the tube these days care less for the souls behind than in days gone past, in return they are treated the same as they treat others (to a lower standard).

That has nothing to do with Bob - just the general decline in the industry that lives of past glory.

If you want to "strike" hold the cards.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ain-180962023/

But then accept to never fly again.