No dear chap, declining yields and all, mean the free cash flow has declined a bit.

Maintaining momentum in our 'Executive bonus (LTIP) scheme is hard work.

Those bloody share buy backs are expensive work!

Qantas need a new fleet.

:confused:Another part of the airline that was world class, reduced to nothing and being sold of for short term cash injection.

Like the engine testing and overhaul, once a world leader training the likes of SIA, Cathay, ANA, JAL, Lufthansa, now they send the aeroplanes away and just get them to do the maintenance:confused::ugh:

They are selling the family silver. I don’t think I could have chartered a better course for destruction than the one being taken! I read Andrew David’s triumphant announcement of that with utter disbelief. It’s like the Sudetenland volunteering to annex itself to Germany before WWII!

Anyone notice the laser like focus on APU fuel usage? Laughable they are concerned about fuel with the fleet they’ve got but I’ve been told now by two very different sources that it’s little to do with fuel, and a lot to do with the fact Qf don’t own the engines any more but have sold and lease them - on an hourly rate...

Cant change the A in laser for some reason!!

VJ - it’s called Power By the Hour and has been around for a very long time. Look it up, nothing nefarious, a great way to de-risk a high risk asset as well as pull some predictability into your spending.

Yes I know, I’m an angel cos I didn’t knock the company and bang on about blah, blah, blah. 🙄

One needs to look at history regarding the sale of flight kitchens. Airlines were forced into establishing their own flight kitchens as in the day, no one offered the services they required. So to meet their demand, flight kitchens became part of airlines. The world has moved on and kitchens have long been considered to be not the core business of an airline. For the same reason, one could suggest that's why airlines don't own oil refineries.

Arthur - it’s the lies, not the decision per se that is the issue!

Ken - As long as there are meals and beverages consumed on aircraft, there is a business case to supply them. As with Engineering and everything else that was once absolutely worlds best standard, these entities have been decimated, Qantas has offloaded anything that is attractive to others, most likely for a relative pittance. If there is a single dollar to made in a year, Qantas should be making it and not immediately offloading it so a major competitor can then use that dollar against them.

For Qantas to be failing to buy aircraft (are aircraft considered ‘core’ to an airline??) AND offloading major assets like catering - to its’ primary competitor, no less - the situation must be extreme. Is it extreme because there is no money left for Joyce to maintain his exorbitant salary/boasting rights, or is the airline starting to grind to a halt through gross mismanagement (crewing/outsourcing etc)?

Deltas oil refinery ;)

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/...pay-off-a.aspx

Along with the largest Maintenance facility in North America.

Aviation MRO Services, Aircraft Maintenance & Engine Overhaul | Delta TechOps

Not being a smart arse. Just pointing out that some ‘non-core’ businesss can work.

For a similar reason, QF used to do the lion's share of ground handling for international carriers coming to SYD/MEL/BNE etc... utilising assets that would generally otherwise be idle in between QF flights... Nevertheless a few years ago they decided this was non-core as well, forcing these carriers into the arms of the competition. A similar thing happened with Q Catering and a couple of big contracts not too long ago.

Yeah. That ‘de-risk’ worked so well when one blew up on the wing of an A380 ex SIN. Not sure it worked real well for predictability of spending after that either.

Sure Keg, but there's insurance for that.:rolleyes:

No they won't. They will 'enjoy' whatever Dnata can supply for the lowest possible price Qantas can negotiate, particularly down the back, where it is hardly a "premium service".

The problem with outsourcing is that control of process is lost.
Whilst it is low fruit to the accountant to sell what was once owned, there are sound process control reasons for it. Qantas catering was low fruit, William Meaney was involved in the stripping of Swiss Air and its catering, selling Gate Gourmet to TPG (Texas Pacific Group) with whom he still has connections...Isn't he leaving the board now?


Keg is absolutely correct. No one remembers that it was a Rolls Royce Trent 900. The media splashed pictures of a Qantas logo, not RR. Lovely Olivia was busy defending Qantas, not Rolls Royce.

Mr Joyce made reference to the 'responsibility for the engines not being a core responsibility of Qantas'. Nice Alan, real modern corporate speak. Had it ended worse he would have increased the private security detail to keep him safe.

Qantas still need a new fleet

Keg, what would the difference have been if QF had owned the engines on the A380?

Was the PBH contract renegotiated after that event, not in QF’s favour?

As previously said, insurance covered the damage to the airframe, exactly what it’s for.

If we’d owned them an maintained them we would have been well aware that there were serious issues with a number of them across the fleet. This was an incident who’s direct cause was due to lack of Qantas oversight of the engines hanging on the wing.


Lol. I suspect Oriana’s comment was more about sarcasm than anything else. Brand damage? Grounding of the entire A380 fleet for weeks? How about the risk of a hull loss? Sure, no worries. Insurance has it covered! :ugh:

No it doesn't need one. It can also become more of a virtual airline instead of putting billions into new QI fleet. Basing your plan and thinking on the false premise that QI will inevitably be purchasing new aircraft is a mistake.

Spot on, short term thinking, sell off the family farm, get a big bonus, retire with a Golden Handshake

Its the New Guy's problem to make money when you are paying a fortune for outsourced services that you used to own.
Of course the first thing the new guy does is write down the value of everything, declare a huge loss, and blame the outgoing guy.

The execs keeps getting the big bonuses, while the company is in a race to the bottom, and bankruptcy.

We keep hearing about these ‘Virtual Airline’ business models, but I can’t really think of one off hand. Where you might say codeshare, etc; all airlines use codeshare and the like to give its customers a slightly improved route network, this is hardly said business model. Every airline still flies its own metal on the routes where it can get the loads it needs and make money... people want to get the product / brands they pay for, and if they don’t get it they’ll go elsewhere.

Qantas is going to be increasingly competing with airlines that have already had more modern and efficient fleets for a decade. Most are already taking a step-change again, leaving Qantas at risk of being an entire generation behind, AND playing catch-up.

Qantas employees are constantly told they are too expensive, or that their Western Terms and conditions are uncompetitive in an Asian region, yet when it comes to making serious strides where costs can REALLY be impacted in competing with SQ and Cathay and the like, the current management seem to drag their feet.

Unfortunately for the IR bullies, using aircraft orders will no longer be effective as a tool in an industrial battle. The staff (pilots/engineers/and others), are now increasingly aware that either Qantas gets serious about a fleet renewal program, or it gets annihilated by it’s competitors who have been serious about it for a decade or more already. It’s only a matter of time before the share market becomes aware of this as well.

Alan Joyce has been at the helm for almost TEN years, and I can't think of one new aircraft order made in that time... but the time has come. They need to outline a fleet renewal program for the next decade, and it needs happen relatively soon.

Rated De is correct.

The aircraft that Qantas needs -big long range twins- both have delivery constraints that seem a bit unstable. There are big 777-9 and A350-1000 orders from the ME3 that could easily shrink or delay which could free up slots. If they don’t Qantas is really screwed.

There are circa 100 Airbus orders for the various JQ entities...if a conversion of some of those to 350s is even possible the first delivery would be 70 months away, assuming the Airbus order book stays stable. There are earlier 777 slots but then what happens with the 100 A320/1 order? Take them all?

In six years QF will lose all of the 747s, the early 330 deliveries will be time-ex or close to it and a lot of 737s will be worn out too.

Regarding virtual airlines: If Qantas had no planes what the hell would a customer even need them for? I might do that myself since I don't own any aeroplanes either. Hey everybody! Look at me...I'm an airline! Weeeeeee!

No, he is not.

Qantas' labour cost base is higher than almost all of its competitors - especially those in Asia, Middle East, New Zealand and South America. If you want an example of a virtual airline, try looking next door at Virgin. If there were easy millions to be made operating a full service international airline out of Australia with modern aircraft, Virgin would be expanding rapidly internationally. Look at the fares being offered to Europe by the Chinese and Middle East carriers. QAN offering these fares would not only be economically loss-making, they wouldn't even be cash flow positive.

I understand there is a strong view among some senior QAN people that no more investment should be made into QI. The 777X or A350 project is a once in a generation opportunity for QI to have a future of growth, but the numbers have to add up. Don't assume that they will.

You’re right...time for a sweeping cull of the campus. Time for executive remuneration to reflect the size of the airline. Time for honesty and not this puerile attempt to shape perceptions based on a lie.