Totally agree Daylight Robbery - interesting that everyone runs to all sorts of conclusions - when as mentioned by others VA does this, and has been doing it for years, as is JQ.

Quite simply the NZ crews just don't mix and fly with the AU crew. Works at the other end of the terminal...

NZ vs VH tails will be the only difference you will notice - allows better utilisation of the fleet, and cycling the a/c - the current ZK ones would have a lot more hours vs cycles than an VH aircraft.

I hope you can see the irony of that statement Rep, factual as it maybe. With few exceptions, the travelling public does not distinguish between JC (or any subsidiary) and QF mainline. Same uniforms, same livery, same product.

If something unfortunate were to happen, a courtroom might absolve QF of some liability but the Public would not.

As such, I highly doubt the QF brand would be happy with sub-standard Pilots operating under their banner and thus the reason for their failures to move into Mainline lie elsewhere.

Honest question, was the failure rate from JC Pilots any higher than other entities in the Group? Are they not simply paying lip service to give the illusion of internal career opportunities while hiring externally?

Problem for QF is they are saying on one hand people are not suitable but are happy for them to fly their aircraft because their labour is cheap.

So which is it? Are people suitable for QF or not?

Agreed. Some of the attacks on JC pilots elsewhere in this thread are very disappointing.

Agree, wrong choice of words on my part.

However, are the JC (or any Group) Pilots unsuitable because of stiff competition or because it's best to keep them where they are and hire externally?

I wonder how many Group Pilots might have been successful had they worked for Virgin/Tiger?

This isn't exclusive to QF of course, Air NZ have gone through it recently favoring external Pilots over internals purely because the numbers required would have grounded the Links if they didn't. Commercially it makes perfect sense, poach talent from the competition while avoiding the double training of hiring internally.

Ahhh deary me, the 1960's are still alive and well.....

Fact?
Perhaps you meant

Actually it's ironic that you complain about the Jetconnect "pincer" move, but in the next breath whinge and moan about the one thing that would actually eliminate the pincer... JC pilots being paid the same as QF pilots. If you mainline guys were half as clever as you think you are you'd be pushing as hard as possible to have the SH EBA applied to Jetconnect.

I think there was, in fact, quite a considerable court case a few years back funded by AIPA. All the way to the Supreme Court it went. I'll let one more knowledgable fill in the gaps. But the premis of your insult is misfounded, uninformed and ignorant of history.

That horse has well and truly bolted.

I'm aware.

Exactly.

"Unfortunately travelator, the harsh reality is that the vast majority of Jetconnect pilots, were deemed unsuccessful in the recent mainline assessment (fact). Why would Qantas deem them unsuitable then decide to put them on the seniority list for movement within the mainline group".

What mainline assessment? Are you talking about recent interviews? Of maybe 115 total Jetconnect pilots, maybe 5 had interviews. (Just a guesstimate) At least 3 were successful. Was there some Qantas audit that no one knows about. Definitely not in the the last 18 months so how can your statement have any truth to it?

The good news is that the NZ head of Jetconnect has agreed to operate as CEO of Qantas and will bring her management team across to help the Executive Managers at Qantas as they are very busy. Mr Clifford said there are no plans to replace the Qantas management team, but thanked them for their effort saying it had not gone unnoticed.

Hmmm, doesn't look good for the QF management team then. apparently the JC team will wear QF management uniform but be paid NZ salaries. I imagine the board has a plan and the JC management team will be all that's left in QF HQ in a few years. If I was a senior exec at mainline I'd be worried.Good news is the annual profits should top $3B.

Why? If I recall correctly the court case did not proceed once it was determined the Fair Work Act has no jurisdiction over an NZ employer, which Jetconnect technically is, albeit a sham employer of convenience.

Changing the aircraft registration won't change that. Fair Work doesn't give a toss about aircraft registration - that's CASA's concern. As has already been noted on this thread, VA NZ and JQ NZ already fly VH tails. They just need an Aus licence to do so.

So I'm thinking, Jetconnect can either:

1. continue to exist as normal and fly VH tails, in which case the airframes will be more flexible but the pilots will not; or

2. cease to exist with the pilots somehow absorbed into mainline under SHWA conditions with a NZ base, in which case both airframes and pilots will be more flexible to fly domestic routes.

Option 2 is more flexible, and more complex, but might help with a mainline 737 pilot shortage - so it could be attractive to the Company.

From previous posts it appears option 1 is the "advertised" preferred option, but they haven't commited to it yet. Possibly because option 2 is still under negotiation. Option 2 might actually be the preferred long term goal, pending the outcome of industrial negotiation.

I have no connection to any sources, so this is again, pure speculation. However, the CP has emailed mainline pilots indicating that AIPA talks are underway.

For what it's worth, Troo believer does not speak for the majority of QF pilots, and people like him embarrass most of us. I hope this works out well for Jetconnect pilots.

Same here. The Pilot group as a whole can only benefit from the lower of the Pay and Conditions in the group being improved. I hope it happens.
The industry has changed over the past few years, barring a new Global Financial downturn of some kind, the Pilots now hold the upper hand. Don’t lose sight of that.

On reflection yes I was out of line posting that response. I apologise to the Jetconnect pilots and my fellow Qf pilots. Defred is correct. Let’s get everyone under the same banner and put this divisive wedge to bed once and for all. Once bitten twice shy. Sorry.

Hi,

Just a side jab! For my money, the best the QF union will be able to negotiate will be an opportunity to "bid" for NZ based commands. I'm guessing such commands will be less financially rewarding that AU commands but equally there will be enough within QF ranks that will take them. The take up of these "opportunities" will be mentioned during EBA negotiations and viowala! new deal.

Interesting to see qlink dash 8s flying in NZ with VH rego and painted Jet*.......

Troo B,
It is easy to say ( or write) something that you later regret. Eventually everyone does it. ( Lord knows I have)
It is not so easy to do what you have done and own it. I think it says a lot about a persons character.
The industry appears to me to be changing. I've been in it full time for 23 years now and T's and C's have been declining the entire time up until about 18months ago when experienced pilots started to be harder to come by. Most Airlines have gone down the road of contracting out work to more productive 'labour units' in order to stay solvent/competitive but now simply having someone flying the plane is becoming an issue that is talked about. Contracts around the world are improving significantly. It's not beyond my imagination that QF Mainline might decide that creating security around pilot numbers is a sound strategy that will provide a competitive advantage in the future.
Interesting times.

I echo the above post. Thanks for coming back to the table, Troo.

Mainline pilots have been bitten (more than once) and it becomes natural to blame the false enemy (pilots taking jobs where they are available) rather than the true enemy (the architects of divide and conquer).

It's time pilots united themselves against these architects, rather than attempting to defend their own turf. Uniting across the Tasman isn't easy, given the mix of regulatory and industrial boundaries. But taking another losing case to the courts over changing aircraft tails isn't going to help anyone.

As I said earlier, apparently AIPA is in "talks" with QF on the subject. They wouldn't be if QF didn't want some pilot flexibility. I have no idea what will come from these "talks". I have no knowledge of union matters. But AIPA has a pretty strong history of defending seniority, so I would doubt they would agree to anything that would cost mainline pilot career advancement.

I predict that what comes out of this will come down to the attitudes and ideologies of those at the negotiating table (on all sides). It's not beyond my imagination that a solution could be found that would benefit all parties (mainline pilots, Jetconnect pilots, and Qantas). Whether that solution can be identified and agreed upon remains to be seen. If not, we might just be left with the status quo.