IsDon,

Remarkable similarity to how the USA does it. There's a thread in Ts&E where I've posted a running series of articles about the plight of the USAF in particular. They've formed USAF-airline panels and committees to "study" a solution.

None is forthcoming yet; I predict none will be.

I'd bet money the airlines here are thinking what you say in the last sentence above. All very entertaining.

Agree with most of you post CS, but well before external apps openend I heard that there was indeed formal communication of the impending recruitment drive and that ADF aircrew would be targeted among the mix of recruits. As a matter of courtesy.

Don't ask me to feel sorry for any of the muppets in career and personnel management. These problems are entirely of their own doing. Guys that joined from 2010 onwards are on a pay scheme that has them earning massively less each year then their mates that joined prior. Add in the various retention schemes (MSBS ect) that they can't be a part of either and you're talking about a pay differential of 30-40% (depending on rank). T&Cs have gone only one way globally, yet in the ADF they've gone backwards. The majors commenced recruiting more than a year ago, what has HR done to prevent the wholesale destruction of its workforce? Let's not even get started on the recruiting issues they have. The ADF has become a stepping stone, not a career.

I don't know whether there was direct talks initially but QF certainly telegraphed it's intention to recruit when they announced the 787 order championing the 170 new pilots they'd need.

Now we're likely to take on significantly more than 170 given the increased hours on all fleets but the notice was there. We actually started recruiting about 9 months later.

I predict there will be yet another survey to determine why RAAF pilots are leaving.
RAAF recruiting will ramp up.
The airlines will stop recruiting.
There will be a surplus of RAAF pilots.
RAAF recruiting will slow down.
Airline recruiting will ramp up.
RAAF pilots will leave.

There will be another survey... :hmm:

"The RAAF, a better start to your career."

Wasn't that the recruiting slogan in the 90's? :D

Why would anyone want to join the RAAF?

I can think of one solitary young pilot or wannabe out of many many I’ve met who considered Air Force who is now doing a cadetship anyway.

Shocking these people want to turn the defence force into a social experiment then wonder why people aren’t keen on joining or staying.

patty, I don't understand what you're saying?

When you finally understand how MSBS works you have to wonder why anyone would want to leave the RAAF. The grass is not always greener. Airline flying is doing the same hour of flying over and over and over again. It would even make C130 flying look exciting.

Well if that’s your attitude can you please save us all the hassle and stay in the Air Force. Plenty of young civilian trained pilots who’s career dream is to become airline captains who wouldn’t find it boring at all. At least they’ll appreciate the opportunity they have been given.

Mmmm, never thought of it that way flying Hercs around New Guinea.

Same with RAF over here in UK. Poor pay compared to airlines, away accommodation substandard, poor scheduling, and aircrew shortages appearing.
A relative of mine a Transport Capt., converted to the Voyager A330 Tanker /Transport couple of years ago.The conversion training here done by a civilian contractor with ex airline trainers, to the Airbus civil standard syllabus. On completion of the RAF conversion, if you complete the ALTP exams you get issued with the Airbus A330/350 Civil type rating.
Quite an incentive to leave the RAF.
British Airways in the last year or so has had a large recruitment programme 300+ new entrants. My relative straight onto the BA A380, with on day one a higher salary. And more of her RAF colleagues with heavy jet experience, onto the B744/777/787,
A no brainer , and big problem for RAF retention.

2 bites with the one bait.

Nice work don...

Thanks ruprecht, I do try my best. I hope you are doing well.

I stand by it though, if I known back then what I know now, my choice would have been different.

dr dre, I understand what you are saying. It is a shame some of these guys will never know what flying without an autopilot is all about.

Chronic Snoozer, I guess you mean that dreaded Madang approach? Real PNG flying was done by that tactically flown, radial powered twin :)

Yeah, the one without autopilot.

MSBS is indeed a generous scheme. For me it was a choice between desk jobs, PERS management and politics for the last 20 years of my career or keep flying in an airline without all of that stuff and have some more time to enjoy life. RAAF flying was very good and exciting but it just does not last.

100% agree with you mate! I was more than happy to leave an MSBS retention benefit and the super scheme itself on the table to come over civvy side. I have far more time for family fun, RAAF reserve work on the side and a chance to learn from the guys and girls who have done the GA / regional work prior to coming to mainline. It makes for a far better work life balance (oh the irony :O )


The idea of 20 years of desk jobs, politics and moving the family just isn't sustainable for most. Do what suits your circumstances, but mainline has proven to be a bloody good landing spot so far. As for the potential new pay deal in defence , there could be some large ramifications to MSBS $$. Awas the finance dept good ideas fairies!!

Good luck to all running the DP gauntlet

Yes, the RAAF spruiked on about the importance of a work/life balance and did little to convince me that they really gave a rat's about it...
But, on the whole, it was good for 15-odd years!
I think that any concerted efforts by the RAAF to stifle the outflow of pilots by making "deals" with airlines, will only have the effect of pi$$ing off those who are considering leaving anyway and may well encourage them!

Hey Dr Dre - if you knew Donpizmeov and what he has done in his career you would probably retract your comments. He is more than qualified to comment and in my view, he is spot on. Why I ever left the RAAF is beyond me. But I probably would put it down to lack of education on the super scheme. There are contemparies of mine leaving the RAAF now, in early 50s on a very good retirment income - 6 figures plus. Sure guys want to keep flying, but some of us are humble enough to admit in hindsight that the world of long days and long night sectors on the autopilot isnt the land of milk and honey we thought it to be.

BUT - each to their own, works for some, not for others. Each is entitled to their own view, and their own decision.

It's called nostalgia, and it ain't what it used to be... :)