Better than the rest of us?
Is anyone able to confirm that someone refused to switch his tablet to flight mode on QF 2133 (Canberra to Melbourne) today thereby causing a return to the gate?
If it's true - what is wrong with these people? Flight time just over an hour yet he feels the needs to be online. So many people these days believe that the world revolves around them! |
Why the fuss? the pilots are sitting up there with theirs on.
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I am a commuter between Brisbane and Melbourne. In the last 6 months I have noticed a trend for passengers to simply ignore the requests of crew to "switch devices to flight mode" so much so that on four occasions in the last couple of months passengers have initiated or received phone calls on taxi out or, on two occasions, on the take off roll. In each case the crew ignored it despite it being quite obvious who was infringing the policy.
I'm sure it's the same on all carriers, but I find it frustrating that an announcement is made, the majority of passengers ignore it and no-one thinks that it may be necessary to either allow the use of these devices or actually make some effort to ensure compliance with a regulatory requirement. |
Why the fuss? the pilots are sitting up there with theirs on. |
Why the fuss? the pilots are sitting up there with theirs on. |
I thought Airnorth was the only one flying Ejets now?
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I've often wondered why CASA don't send FOIs onboard and prosecute a few who don't switch off/flight mode. Would soon get the message across via the media..
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Originally Posted by UnderneathTheRadar
(Post 9957433)
I've often wondered why CASA don't send FOIs onboard and prosecute a few who don't switch off/flight mode. Would soon get the message across via the media..
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someone refused to switch his tablet to flight mode on QF 2133 (Canberra to Melbourne) today https://www.3aw.com.au/selfish-ceo-f...-flight-delay/ |
Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 9957427)
Last item in the before start checklist before getting the clearance to pushback "PEDs to flight mode". Thats in the airline I work for anyway.
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I was on an Air India (never again) flight once. 2 men were pacing up and down the aisle during the take off using their phones despite repeated requests to sit down by the FA's. There seems to be something in the Indian culture where men will not take instructions from women...
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What is the regulation regarding flight mode?
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Originally Posted by umop apisdn
(Post 9958513)
What is the regulation regarding flight mode?
Portable electronic devices Electronic devices The following information will help to ensure your safety when using electronic devices on the aircraft:
Put down electronic devices, books and newspapers and listen to the safety briefing. |
I was wondering more about an actual reg.
I know that is it is reg if it is in the Ops Manual, but I never remembered seeing a standalone one. |
There seems to be something in the Indian culture where men will not take instructions from women... |
Originally Posted by umop apisdn
(Post 9958977)
I was wondering more about an actual reg.
I know that is it is reg if it is in the Ops Manual, but I never remembered seeing a standalone one. That is the Australian law enacting the Tokyo Convention and another treaty, it also gives the power to captain to arrest people on flights in Australia, i.e. if someone failed to turn off a PED, return to their seat, smoking onboard etc, the captain could arrest the person and the the passenger would most likely face a court. |
Is there here a double-standard? Compare and contrast: a CEO refuses to obey the lawful direction of a crew member by refusing to comply with the law WRT his mobile phone. Aircraft returns to the gate, pax apparently off-loaded and then silence as to whether police called, arrest made, charges laid, pax banned or sanctioned by carrier etc etc. On the other hand a bogan gets drunk, or partially drunk, on an aircraft and misbehaves. Police are called, pax is off-loaded, arrested, charged, convicted and fined etc etc.
To me, the CEO's behaviour is far worse than that of the drunk bogan on a number of grounds yet his treatment would appear to be much more lenient. Why so? Discuss. |
Possibly that the probability of violence on board is higher with the bogan than the CEO. Both would be equally capable, but I'd be betting on the drunk bogan to start trouble first.
I agree that the line between the two is somewhat blurred. |
SWH, surpringly the relevant parts of the Tokyo convention must be part of the relevant state and territory crimes act. How the AFP fit into that, I have no idea
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Surely a quick-thinking PA announcement would have solved the problem causing minimal delay.
"Folks, you may have noticed us taxiing back to the terminal. Its all thanks to the selfish ignoramus in seat 3A who is refusing to switch his personal electronic device to flight mode. You might like to share your opinion with him as his refusal to follow CASA regulations will cause you all personally at least a 20 min delay at your destination. Whilst we would never condone physical assault, common f@rkin courtesy IS our number one priority." Quickly followed by "Thank you for your prompt cooperation, would seat rows 4 to 20 please return to their seats, ensure their seatbelts are fastened, and pick up any errant PED parts on the way." |
Originally Posted by Bula
(Post 9959724)
SWH, surpringly the relevant parts of the Tokyo convention must be part of the relevant state and territory crimes act. How the AFP fit into that, I have no idea
There well maybe additional legislation for intrastate flights, I am just unfamiliar with it. |
Originally Posted by C441
(Post 9957421)
I'm sure it's the same on all carriers, but I find it frustrating that an announcement is made, the majority of passengers ignore it and no-one thinks that it may be necessary to either allow the use of these devices or actually make some effort to ensure compliance with a regulatory requirement.
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Electronic devices OFF flight mode, are NIL hazard to any passenger aircraft in operation in 2017 |
A type I once flew not so long ago had a spate of spurious fire warnings. Lots of dead puppy dogs and pussy cats as a result of the checklist item to gas them with halon.
It turned out mobile phones left on and packed in checked in luggage was the culprit. So yes, they can have an effect, and in systems you wouldn’t think they would. I just hate the arrogance of these plonkers that insist they know more about the effect of their mobile phone than the engineers that built their phone, the aeroplane they’re flying in, the airline they’re flying with, and the crew getting their sorry ass from A to B. I guess they’re experts based on their BA in Art History. Just do as you’re bloody told. If you don’t like it, don’t fly. |
People hate regulations that take years to catch up with reality. Electronic devices OFF flight mode, are NIL hazard to any passenger aircraft in operation in 2017. Do you get the picture? Your interpretation of the rules is not going to stop you getting kicked off or arrested if you refuse to follow cabin crew or flight crew instructions. End of story no correspondence will be entered into.:ugh: |
Many years ago in Luanda during the civil war in Angola Air France took the B747 to Gaberone for crew rest and flew back to do the scheduled LAD CDG flight in the evening, therefor crew hours were tight.
The baggage was lined up on the tarmac and boarding passengers had to physically hand their baggage to the loaders to put in the containers. We were all onboard waiting for departure and the captain said there was a piece of baggage left on the tarmac, could the owner please identify. Nobody was forthcoming so all the baggage was unloaded again and we all had to go back down and go through the procedure again. This time all was identified. As the doors were closed the captain who was extremely pissed off by now, announced that seat xxx was the cause of the delay. I imagine with a whole lot of pissed off people now glaring at him he was suitable reprimanded. The delay was over 2 hours. I missed my connection home. |
I vaguely recall everyone having to personally identify their luggage in Bahrain, many years ago. Not all was identified, and it was left behind. I suspect a couple of owners realised at the far end...
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People hate regulations that take years to catch up with reality. Electronic devices OFF flight mode, are NIL hazard to any passenger aircraft in operation in 2017. From what I can read here though, they don't seem very relevant in 2017. I reckon we should all just ignore them.:ugh: Watta ya reckon Moneyx4? |
Surely a quick-thinking PA announcement would have solved the problem causing minimal delay. "Folks, you may have noticed us taxiing back to the terminal. Its all thanks to the selfish ignoramus in seat 3A who is refusing to switch his personal electronic device to flight mode. You might like to share your opinion with him as his refusal to follow CASA regulations will cause you all personally at least a 20 min delay at your destination. Whilst we would never condone physical assault, common f@rkin courtesy IS our number one priority." Quickly followed by "Thank you for your prompt cooperation, would seat rows 4 to 20 please return to their seats, ensure their seatbelts are fastened, and pick up any errant PED parts on the way." "Back in the bad old days when smoking was permitted except for takeoff and landing I did something similar. I was Captain on an HS748 on the last evening service from Nadi to Nausori. It was a stormy night, with nice lightning displays clearly visible to the pax. The hostie made the usual PA before takeoff announcing a flight time of 30 minutes. Just prior to top of descent I made the usual PA from the cockpit. Despite this, a fat Yank lit up his cigar. Five minutes later of course we put the ‘no smoking’ sign on. Fat Yank kicked up a fuss refusing to butt out his stogie, saying something like he had only just lit it. Hostie reported to me. I got back on the PA, with words to the effect that we would be going into a holding pattern until the American gentleman in 3A either complied, or finished his cigar. A couple of burly but nervous flyer Fijians did the rest". |
Originally Posted by Moneymoneymoneymoney
(Post 9960793)
People hate regulations that take years to catch up with reality. Electronic devices OFF flight mode, are NIL hazard to any passenger aircraft in operation in 2017.
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Blame Mythbusters. They went and tested one phone in a mock scenario with an old aircraft and told the whole world it was a myth. The number of people who 'think they know better' as a result is considerable...
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There isn't an actual reg. The FAA issues guidelines only and CASA pretty much follows them. It is up to the airline to determine it's own policy for the use of PED's. The onus is on the airline to prove that operating them is safe or otherwise. That's pretty much why they just said turn them off. A few years ago the FAA (and CASA shortly afterwards) advised that PED use could be permitted as long as they were operated in "Flight Mode". If the airline policy is different, or the use contravenes whatever policy the airline has, then that is where the offence is, by failing to follow a direction of the crew. The FCC, not the FAA, in America ban making mobile calls in flight because of the issues it causes with the terrestrial cell network. The same problem probably exists in Australia, but I'm not sure which agency has the blanket power to prohibit the airborne use of mobile phones for telephony, and I don't think such a prohibition exists.
An excerpt from a position paper from the Australian Mobile Telecommunications Association: In Australia, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority does not have specific regulations regarding mobile phone use and has left the decision up to the discretion of the airlines. The onus is placed on the pilot in command or the operator to ensure that the aircraft is operated safely. Passengers are required to obey all lawful instruction issued by the pilot in command in accordance with Civil Aviation Regulations. CASA's page: https://www.casa.gov.au/safety-manag.../mobile-phones |
From QF 'Conditions of Carriage' :
https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlin...obal/en#jump11 We may also ask you not to operate any electronic devices including cellular telephones, laptop computers, recorders, radios, CD players, electronic games, laser products or transmitting devices, remote or radio controlled toys that could interfere with the flight. If you fail to comply with our requests, we may retain the device until the end of the flight. Hearing aids and heart pacemakers are permitted |
What’s so hard about “them’s the rules. If you don’t like them then don’t board the aircraft”?
And what I really want to know is - why hasn’t he been named and shamed? |
There isn't an actual reg. "follow all illuminated information signs and crew member instructions"? Has my airline been lying to every passenger in every preflight safety briefing? (That question is rhetorical...) CR. |
Should be Named and Shamed....
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