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-   -   AKL running out of Jet Fuel (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/599615-akl-running-out-jet-fuel.html)

Slezy9 17th Sep 2017 02:29

AKL running out of Jet Fuel
 
Seems bizarre that they don't have a plan B. It could last 10-14 days! That's a lot of cancelled flights for Air NZ if the fuel is out that long. Emirates are operating their AKL - DUB via CHC, must be impacting available fuel already.

Do airlines have insurance policies for this sort of thing?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11923227

troppo 17th Sep 2017 05:13

Business interruption cover...if they have it

skol 17th Sep 2017 06:58

Perhaps if they'd been using Whenuapai for domestic and regional flights it wouldn't be such a disaster.

framer 17th Sep 2017 07:33

Doesn't Whenuapai get it's jet A from the same pipeline?

skol 17th Sep 2017 07:49

Not as far as I know, but there would be storage tanks at Whenuapai. And not the same demand for long haul.

Octane 17th Sep 2017 08:03

Why the hell do they need to fly in "experts" from Canada? It's a breached pipeline, not rocket science...

HHornet 17th Sep 2017 08:14

Hum, where does the farmer stand in all of this after letting his digger damage the pipeline (as reported by Radio NZ today) ? They also mentioned that the leak had disgorged the equivalent of two fuel tankers' worth. That's going to make a mess of the farmer's field.

FlightlessParrot 17th Sep 2017 08:33


Originally Posted by Slezy9 (Post 9894124)
Seems bizarre that they don't have a plan B. It could last 10-14 days!

Standard Auckland infrastructure problem, I'm afraid. This is the city that 20 years ago had an electricity outage in the CBD that lasted for five weeks.

To some extent it's because Auckland has grown very fast indeed, and the infrastructure in all sorts of areas hasn't kept up. Mostly, I fear, because local politicians don't want to raise rates, and national politicians and bureaucrats aren't in Auckland, and many hate the place; but the pace of development would have needed to be pretty brisk.

It's also true that NZ is a long, thin, country, that makes the routing of genuinely redundant services a bit difficult.

ElZilcho 17th Sep 2017 10:38


Originally Posted by FlightlessParrot (Post 9894293)
Standard Auckland infrastructure problem, I'm afraid. This is the city that 20 years ago had an electricity outage in the CBD that lasted for five weeks.

To some extent it's because Auckland has grown very fast indeed, and the infrastructure in all sorts of areas hasn't kept up. Mostly, I fear, because local politicians don't want to raise rates, and national politicians and bureaucrats aren't in Auckland, and many hate the place; but the pace of development would have needed to be pretty brisk.

It's also true that NZ is a long, thin, country, that makes the routing of genuinely redundant services a bit difficult.

Hrmmm, they've had no issue in increasing my rates (in Auckland). They've nearly doubled over the past 5 years. :}

cyclenorm 18th Sep 2017 01:19

AKL out of fuel?
 
Damage to a fuel pipeline in New Zealand has lead to flight changes in and out of New Zealand.

[URL="https://www.stuff.co.nz/.../a-cut-pipeline-is-causing-a-jet-fuel-shortage-at- auckland-airport-heres-what-we-know-so-far"[/URL]

Many flights out of AKL are very long range, and will now require fuel stops at other airports, in or out of NZ. What effect will this have on crew schedules, etc?

cyclenorm 18th Sep 2017 03:08

Effect on crewing?
 
Intermediate fuel stops will extend flight times for already long non-stops to Doha, Singapore, KL, Bangkok, Houston, Buenas Aires, etc. How will this affect crew times and deployments?

TBM-Legend 18th Sep 2017 05:00

Have they heard of tankers to feed the airport fuel farm until repairs completed?

FlightlessParrot 18th Sep 2017 05:43


Originally Posted by TBM-Legend (Post 9895173)
Have they heard of tankers to feed the airport fuel farm until repairs completed?

It seems there aren't enough road tankers in the country. When duplication or an enlarged local storage was last rejected, the idea was to import tankers from Australia to cover the requirement (!). Government warned of fuel risk five years ago | Radio New Zealand News

Ken Borough 18th Sep 2017 06:44

Air NZ must be wishing they still had at least one747. An empty 747 fuelled to MLW can import an awful lot of fuel but they must also have the know-how and equipment to transfer the fuel to other aircraft.

bluesideoops 18th Sep 2017 07:15

Must be a terrible design if so easily interrupted and absolute madness that an entire airport would rely entirely on only one pipeline (never heard of redundancy and contingency planning?)

Chris2303 18th Sep 2017 09:37


Originally Posted by bluesideoops (Post 9895212)
Must be a terrible design if so easily interrupted and absolute madness that an entire airport would rely entirely on only one pipeline (never heard of redundancy and contingency planning?)

Much the same design that has Sydney with a single cross runway to cope with strong westerlies.

I agree, however.

PoppaJo 18th Sep 2017 10:12

Emirates Auckland-Dubai is stopping in Melbourne for nearly 2hrs enroute to refuel and change crews, and that's for the rest of the week also.

Looks like Qatar is going all the way currently abeam PHE.

FlightlessParrot 18th Sep 2017 10:55


Originally Posted by bluesideoops (Post 9895212)
Must be a terrible design if so easily interrupted and absolute madness that an entire airport would rely entirely on only one pipeline (never heard of redundancy and contingency planning?)

They've heard of it, but rejected it after a cost-benefit analysis. It shows the weakness of pure MBA style management, but not naivety. BTW, I see that Melbourne is also having a fuel shortage. In some situations, single points of failure are quite expensive to avoid.

Heathrow Harry 18th Sep 2017 11:06

Parrott is correct - lots of airports worldwide are in the same boat TBH

Two pipelines is twice the cost and four times the legal challenges and aggravation - then you have to leave one empty or spend time balancing flow between the two...

One issue is just how deep it was buried and how it was marked.... clealry a fault in both.

But the farmer had probably forgotten about it and the contractor didn't look

As for repairing large diameter oil pipelines I'd rather trust a Canadian expert who does it day in, day out than some local plumber

RubberDogPoop 18th Sep 2017 22:22


Originally Posted by FlightlessParrot (Post 9895189)
It seems there aren't enough road tankers in the country.

[QUOTE=Have they heard of tankers to feed the airport fuel farm until repairs completed? [/QUOTE]

Jet fuel is not transported by road....

Enos 18th Sep 2017 22:44


Originally Posted by RubberDogPoop (Post 9896203)
Jet fuel is not transported by road....

Maybe not in NZ but in many other countries it is.

kaikohe76 19th Sep 2017 03:13

If previous Governments here in New Zealand, had taken the trouble to ensure we had a full operational rail service here in the Northland, fuel could be sent by rail tankers from the Marsden Point site to Auckland Airport & elsewhere. Case of the NZ National party, totally unaware, that life does exist to the North of Auckland!

Vertisol 19th Sep 2017 04:06

A tricky welding job no doubt.


Like checking the fuel level with a lit match..

skol 19th Sep 2017 04:35

That pipeline doesn't just doesn't carry Jet A1, it carries diesel and petrol as well, the entire city of Auckland is at risk of running dry in the next week. Some gas stations are already out of 95.
And when the Jet A1 finally reaches AKL it has to settle for 30 hours. Airfields in the Pacific are running low now according to the news.

xny556 19th Sep 2017 10:24

Plenty of Jet A1 is delivered all around New Zealand in road tankers....

troppo 19th Sep 2017 12:31

A couple of NZ 777s into nadi late tonight which is abnormal

Infieldg 19th Sep 2017 21:45

The guy in charge of the pipeline said the biggest problem with a redundant pipeline (eg. from Tauranga for true reduncancy) is our Resource Management Act (RMA) blocking it.

It's an unfortunate side effect of trying to convince the world we're clean and green (despite only recently requiring any form of emissions controls on cars!) that any infrastructure improvements are challenged.

For example hydro electric dam proposals are rejected resulting in 20% of our electricity being generated by burning gas and coal meaning every additional electric car we plug in is 100% powered by fossil fuels, and 29 losing their lives in the ridiculously dangerous uphill entry Pike River mine explosion cos we weren't allowed to open cast it no matter how perfectly we restored the environment afterwards.

Incredibly, the response from the Green party was, as best I can remember it from watching it on TV yesterday morning, that the leak indicates that the Resource Management Act needs TIGHTENING.

There has to be a teeny bit of wriggle room for the really important stuff.

MelbourneFlyer 20th Sep 2017 07:40

QF is flying a B747 SYD-AKL tonight, loaded with 50,000kg of fuel but no passengers, which will be used to keep the JetConnect and Jetstar fleet running.

MelbourneFlyer 20th Sep 2017 07:42

Other moves by QF to handle the fuel shortage:
* A few trans-Tasman B737 flights are being cancelled and replaced by a single A330 flight
* QF will do aircraft-to-aircraft fuel transfers, for example milking fuel from an A330 into a B737!

belowMDA 20th Sep 2017 08:55

For you Aussies wondering about tankers driving the fuel in, the road between the refinery and Auckland had a few significant hills (New Zealand version of hills, not yours) with at times just a single lane each way with many tight turns. It's absolutely not suitable for fully laden tankers. The feasible solution, which is increased storage capacity at the tank farm was not persued by the fuel companies or airport company by the sounds of it.

TBM-Legend 20th Sep 2017 10:50

As the saying goes you reap what you sow...

Zhuntr 21st Sep 2017 00:35

Im sorry, but this post is so wrong I had to register an account for the 1st time so I could refute it:


Originally Posted by Infieldg (Post 9897375)
The guy in charge of the pipeline said the biggest problem with a redundant pipeline (eg. from Tauranga for true reduncancy) is our Resource Management Act (RMA) blocking it.

You mean the Refining NZ spokesperson? As a rep for heavy industry, they are often not in favour of legislation that favours environmental protection over industrial development, but in this case it is not the RMA that would block a second pipeline, but rather the people who who use it to prevent something they personally do not approve of.
Refining NZ for example have strong lobby groups trying to loosen RMA restrictions currently.


Originally Posted by Infieldg (Post 9897375)
For example hydro electric dam proposals are rejected resulting in 20% of our electricity being generated by burning gas and coal meaning every additional electric car we plug in is 100% powered by fossil fuels

I'm sorry but that is factually incorrect. both the 20% & 100% numbers you have quoted are absolutely incorrect - approximately 20% of our generation capacity IS indeed fossil fuel-sourced, but these plants typically only operate during peak periods, and the remainder of the time are offline or in stand-by modes. During typical spring weather for example, when we often have wind & sunny conditions, more than 99% of the grid load is generated by renewable sources currently.

As for the electric cars - no matter what the sticker on the charging station, they pull power from the national grid, meaning they have the same share on renewable/ non-renewable power sources as your toaster & my tv.


Originally Posted by Infieldg (Post 9897375)
Incredibly, the response from the Green party was, as best I can remember it from watching it on TV yesterday morning, that the leak indicates that the Resource Management Act needs TIGHTENING.

There has to be a teeny bit of wriggle room for the really important stuff.

Well I'll agree with you on that point; the Greens can be more than a little hysterical at times...

Mail-man 21st Sep 2017 05:27

Notams
 
Pleased to see NOTAMS from both AKL and NAN regarding abnormal fuel situations. Just another example of Australians dropping the ball (in my experience) failing to list fuel issues in notams

skol 21st Sep 2017 06:52

QF tankering fuel to AKL and then defueled according to the news. Must be a pretty desperate situation.

esa-aardvark 21st Sep 2017 14:35

Anyone know what the plan was for a pipeline fault ?
(I know, "what's it cost & who pays ?")

Chris2303 21st Sep 2017 15:07


Originally Posted by esa-aardvark (Post 9899382)
Anyone know what the plan was for a pipeline fault ?
(I know, "what's it cost & who pays ?")

No plan existed.

A risk analysis was done but the risk was deemed to be exceedingly low.

Auckland Airport may want to consider increasing the amount of onsite storage they have

TBM-Legend 21st Sep 2017 21:29

who pays for this schamozzle?

Oakape 22nd Sep 2017 04:06

The news in NZ this morning they said that it is expected to have 50% flow rate by sometime next week & that the pipeline will not be fully repaired for up to 12 months

Old Fella 22nd Sep 2017 05:26

50000 Kgs.
 

Originally Posted by MelbourneFlyer (Post 9897680)
QF is flying a B747 SYD-AKL tonight, loaded with 50,000kg of fuel but no passengers, which will be used to keep the JetConnect and Jetstar fleet running.

Why only 50,000 Kgs? I guess you mean they are tankering 50,000 Kgs. The B744 can carry over three times that amount.

Ken Borough 22nd Sep 2017 06:02

Old Fella,

I guess they had to put the stuff somewhere. A few light twins in AKL is a lot different to a clutch of wide-bodies at the Jet Base.


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