Add two more to that. High level Govt corruption and kick backs from the money spinning corporate world of particular aviation operators.
Exactly what went on with the A340 incident. Crew specifically and consistently stated they were all chronically fatigued. Apparently a specific "safety bureau" ignored such statements and no mention of it whatsoever as being the contributing factor.
That's because weeeez got a multi, multi million dollar horse race to be sponsored now folks plus other under the table business dealings with a wink wink. ;):mad:

24 hours and bla bla bla...

ALL WRONG!

Hempy,
Plus one on the crew being in oz for more than 24hrs. Its been a while but I do remember being in contact with Capt sometime after the event while he was still in MEL chatting to those nice investigator types.
Any chance we can cut down on the hysteria as this poor fellas family could be reading this and they don't need to be scared by others paranoia.

Rat, good point. I emailed the ATSB (twice) to offer some additional information that was highly relevant to the circumstances surrounding the 340 accident (fatigue being one point but several other things that were part of the Swiss cheese). They did not even reply. Incompetent, arrogant, externally influenced, who knows...

That has to be the best statement on this whole thread. With the emphasis on paranoia.

1.- anybody knows why Captain Ibrahim Alseouni had only OVER 7000 hrs?
Being staff number 202xxx, how is that possible?
I estimate not less than 17 years in EK.

Another UAE prominent family Golden Boy?

2.- EK Media centre

http://www.emirates.com/media-centre...d-august-2016#

OPERATIONAL INCIDENT??? Aircraft crashed and burnt and it is an OPERATIONAL INCIDENT???

get out of there guys, you might be the next one...and you do not know it, because fatigue don't let you think about it...

3 Holer - with all due respect, given the politics of many of those countries and airlines, it is absolutely not paranoia.

However the good news is, after discussion with a bunch of colleagues at (or once at) EK, they believe the airline is sufficiently global and enough managerial and admin posts filled by capable westerners that it would be pretty unlikely that too much covering-up occurs.

Certainly they don't assign such benevolence to two very proximate neighbouring carriers but they believe Emirates to be reputable and given the constitution of it's workforce, unlikely to go too astray in this case. Perhaps wishful thinking but hopefully it eventuates this way.

Al E. Vator
Rubbish.
Fact.
Fact.
Paranoia.

What a nice fella you are Maligno grassing out an ex colleague. Your numbers are wrong by about three years. 777 FOs weren't working hard until recently so a bit over 7000hrs would be about right after you consider pre flying training at Parafield, Jet orientation course, the ATPL course, then Cadet training is all included? Did he start on the 310 and move across to the Boeing?
I hope when you make the headlines others show greater courtesy than you.

3 Holer - statements such as "rubbish" don't assess reality.

Have a browse through some of these articles widely available online - just to refresh your memory. Maybe they're from paranoid journalists? I make no claim as to their accuracy, just that they raise concerning issues.

Treatment of Staff:
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/the-...xury-of-qatar-

The Dark Side of Dubai:
V. The Dunkin' Donuts Dissidents
The dark side of Dubai

UAE detention of foreigners:
An Australian nightmare in Dubai - Background Briefing - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The point is that it needs to be assured that fairness and due process is undertaken in any investigation of the 777 crash, particularly for the FO. The Sunland executives would choke at your dismissive 'paranoia' comment.

Hopefully it eventuates that Emirates will ensure fairness and there is every reason to assume that as a reputable carrier this will happen. I know some great guys there so hopefully all will be fine. How on earth though, in light of the above articles, could that thought classed as paranoia?

For the FO's wellbeing, could it be suggested that the sooner a big campaign is mounted on his behalf, the better; just on the off chance that things may go awry at some stage?

Al E. Vator

You have answered your own question when you state :
Confused, hysterical perception of a situation without considering the factual accuracy of that situation, result in paranoia.

At this stage, it would be more beneficial to JW's friends and family to, focus only on the 777 incident and the facts surrounding that incident.

"INCIDENT" - you must be kidding

Any news on the crews status?

Crew were terminated with 72 hrs after the Melbourne accident seems a little different now...

Were they not re instated ? Later to be asked to leave to insure provident fund was received .

Just conjecture on my part, but he may have been employed in some other capacity before becoming g a cadet. The Cadet scheme is then about four years and they graduate as line FOs with around 800 hrs.

AFAIR they were never terminated as such, but it was made clear to them that it was in their best interest to leave.

I think what's different now is one, someone died and two, the Captain was a local.

Preliminary report
 

Here it is

https://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/ePublicat...-%20A6-EMW.pdf

The lack of availability of slides - very scary.

Push the thrust levers up on a go around.

Pretty detailed for a preliminary report - and it took how long to publish?

CASA/ATSB take note.

"Pretty detailed for a preliminary report - and it took how long to publish."

Startling, we would still be waiting in a year or two's time if the event had have been in Australia.

The thing that stands out to me is how well the cabin crew performed in very trying circumstances. Multiple failures of equipment, non compliant passengers, smoke and fire, all the things there's no way you could possibly train for.
Yet they did their job in a cool professional manner.
I hope they all get the recognition they deserve.
The only blight on the whole event was the unfortunate death of the fire fighter, heart breaking.

Medals for the cabin crew!

It took the ATSB 40 days to come out with the preliminary report of the EK407 in 2009!

That is pretty much the same time as this one!

That's the time it should take.

In Australia it probably takes the same time to find the causes of most incidents. Then it takes another two years of political paper shuffling to ensure all arses are covered and nobody in the "establishment" can possibly have any blame attributed, deserved or not, before anything is released.

That's why it takes two years to release a report into two aeroplanes bumping into one another in a tarmac. There are so many "stakeholders" that have to sign off on the truth first.

to bring the thread back to where it started, is there any news re the Australian FO involved?

Some nasty racist comments in this thread,, and some reasoned rebuttals as well, I worked over 30 years in the area and am disgusted with the prejudice displayed by some people, the thread was about the welfare of the FO , not about anonymous gutless racist comments,, GROW UP and act your age..

Yeah.... Grow up!

Nothing to see here:mad:

Dear Al E. Vator,

Thank you for the links about the reality of life in the Medieval dictatorship of Dubai for a wide cross section of humans denied their Universal Human Rights. Let us pray that the Universal Human Rights of the F/O are being defended.

Reading the well researched and wide ranging article

"The dark side of Dubai"

was particular disturbing,
and to be honest,
heart wrenching.

Careful what content you believe in some articles written by the Independent tabloid. There have been some inaccuracies in the past that have resulted in lawsuits.

Yair, I know but this could be said about nearly every newspaper that's ever been published. Journos are not infallible. :ok:

You got my point exactly Ken. Don't believe everything you read in newspapers and take some commentary with a teaspoon of salt! :ok:

3 Holer - Mate, go talk with the Indians on construction sites and see if they share your rose-coloured views.
Have a chat with the Filipino and Indonesian house maids about their treatment. Talk to the executives previously mentioned who were imprisoned indefinitely. In fact, have a chat to any current pilots about fatigue and what happens if they complain. Talk to the training captains who objected to their conditions and how that was handled.
Nothing trumped-up about any of that no matter how you would like to dismiss it.:ugh:

3 Holer,

There's too much adverse commentary about life and working in certain ME countries and the manner in which employees are treated and respected. While some comment may be exaggerated, there is simply too much of it to be ignored. The adage 'where there's smoke, there's fire' I think applies in this case.

Dubai,

The only place in the world I have personally observed an airport security guard beat a downtrodden man in an airport queue with a baton - obviously a poor peasant labourer going home.

I was lucky enough to be in uniform and went straight for the officer in charge and with a bit of yelling tried to cause a bit of local shame as there was some international event happening in the place at the time.

There was no shame or compassion.

Very grateful for my circumstances and not this poor chaps.

Al - Mate, not sure what Indian construction workers, Filipino maids and executives (airline ?) have to do with this thread. Would like you to show me where I have "trumped up" facts surrounding this 777 incident or have been dismissive about any of them.

Ken, too much of what to be ignored?

ramble on, keep on rambling.:ok:

Had a friend who worked over there.
He was involved in a traffic accident.
23 days in prison before he could be released . . .

The inside of a Dubai prison is not a pleasant place.

Advice from a friend to a young "edgy" relative transiting through Dubai: "Buy and take brand new luggage because if your old crappy bags have even the smell of marijuana let alone a tiny unusable fragment in them you will be in the slammer".

BBC NEWS | UK | Tourists warned of UAE drug laws

British tourist Keith Brown was sentenced to four years in prison after Dubai customs officers found a 0.003g trace of cannabis stuck to his shoe"


Then of course there are the women jailed for reporting rape.

Dubai - the best reason not to fly through the middle east.

Sharia law - coming to a city near you.

Our advice to the agents of our family company years ago operating in various third world countries was to always carry your passport and an open dated air ticket to some place like Singapore. In the event of a traffic accident or any other unpleasantness LEAVE IMMEDIATELY, do not even return home to feed the dog.

Reefrat:

The problem we are referring to is the Racism of the UAE - which exists according to voluminous evidence, and is therefore a fit subject of discussion. THE FO involved, in my opinion, is going to need the good graces of the Australian Government if he is to see the light of day again, let alone pilot an aircraft. By definition, if a Dubai local was the pilot flying, then it can't have been his fault.

They hang people for drugs in Singas Sunfish. Any other good advice?

Can I also ask where you find this "definition" that it cant have been the UAE captain's fault?

The "in my opinion" that you use means "standby for Hysterical, paranoid BS."

donpizmeov.

The inside word is "The F/O was partly to blame for the accident as he did not provide sufficient support to the Captain".

Inside word from where?

The only official word is the preliminary report. Have you read it?

I am pretty sure the 777 is not a single pilot aircraft. There is a big difference between partly to blame, and as Sunfish puts it " by definition it can't be the locals fault".

Donpizmeov

I have read the 21 page Preliminary Report dated 5 SEP 2016. I presume you would be aware the report is not designed to apportion blame or liability. There is also reference to the Final Report having further information regarding the go-around procedure and an in-depth analysis of human factors.

The internal EK report will have some differences similar to the A340-500 A6-ERG accident report by the ATSB.

The ERG crew were out of the company by now. Not so with this crew. Until you have some facts, how about not spreading rumours.

Yeah:mad:

Anyone visiting here would think this is a RUMOUR network or something....

Grow up:mad: