Yet another "loan"..
 

How long until Singapore takes control?

I can see SIA group consisting of the following in the next 5-10 years.

Singapore Airlines
Virgin Australia
Scoot
Silkair
Tiger Airways

Our NZ, it could be an interesting year on the VA front.

With NZ making an pretty decent first half year profit, they will have some spare cash.

Wouldn't it technically be easier for NZ to purchase, VA than SQ? if NZ goes to 51% VA could just operate under New Zealand traffic rights.

An article in the Australian some days ago revealed the chairman of the board reading the law of the land.
That being the law of corporate governance and the responsibilities of the directors of a company board to act in the best interests of the business at hand. Not in accordance with the directors alternate interests abroad (read agendas). The directors being appointed by the foreign owning carriers does call into question the effect of any conflict of interest.

Ansett just turned in it's grave.

NZ are sort of "damned if they do and damned if they don't" really.

On one hand if they take majority shareholding it is Ansett all over again.

On the other hand if they cut VA loose it is Ansett all over again.

The only difference is that NZ is better capitalized now.

Can we at least say ANZ. It is a company we are talking about, not a country. :cool:

Qantas are hiring soon.

Time to abandon ship?

Air NZ even. They are an airline, not a bank.

The loan does state that there are no rights to more equity, so all the precious Australians don't get their panties in a knot.

Air NZ learned the lesson last time around.

NZ is their ICAO designator is it not?! Given the chosen forum I personally assume anytime I see QF we're referring to an airline rather than the quarter finals of something or the Qatar foundation or the QF hotel in Dresden according to Google.....

Well that's a relief!

Thousands lost their jobs in 2001, I'm glad Air NZ learned a lesson from that

I wonder how long it'll be until the shareholders cut it loose? The strategy was to keep Qantas weak in its own backyard and chase its premium customers.

It hasn't worked, Qantas are milking the cow again and will go after their competition while they are weakened by the dead weight in Australia.

I'd imagine a renewed push into singapores backyard, just as they're nipping at ANZ right now.

I wonder if that'll mean 78's to to go after scoot?

Interesting times.

I wonder if that'll mean 78's to to go after scoot?

Um SQ is the biggest owner in VA so no

I think you will find it is Air NZ #1 then Etihad #2 and Singapore #3 in the shareholdings

You are right

As at 16 September 2015 major shareholders were

Air New Zealand (25.90%)
Singapore Airlines (22.79%)
Etihad Airways (24.18%)
Branson (9.96%)

With fuel being at a record low, late model aircraft etc why the hell are they not making a bucketload of money? Not good having to run off to the three ugly sisters to borrow cash to stay at the dance! Come on Cinderella>>

Maybe Joyce and Strambi were right when they said that the Borg knows how to spend money but not so good on bringing it back in? :(

They hedged fuel....

And I quote from a news story

"Virgin Australia chairman Elizabeth Bryan says the airline intends to scrutinise the structure of its balance sheet and examine whether it needs to be improved after coming through the bloody capacity war with Qantas.

Ms Bryan, who is a former chairman of oil refiner Caltex, also defended the company’s hedging position, which analysts have suggested prevented Virgin from enjoying the same windfall from the big drop in oil prices as its arch rival, noting “it is not that one way is right and one way is wrong, that some person is smarter and one is more stupid’’.

Could this be a run by the Asian lion to get what they have wanted since before the AN collapse? Traffic rights on the Pacific ex Australia? It smells of the early stages of a long term engineering regime.

It was quite obvious (to me at least - and I could be totally wrong but don't think so) that SQ had with 2 board members shifted the fate of AN by placing NZ, with 2 members on their board in a position to take control of the cash stripped and foundering AN empire, knowing they were totally inadequate in being able to rescue the airline.

Then, the Lion would ride in on a white charger, rescue Ansett and be the good guy securing the future of the Airline but also giving them total access to the trans Pacific rights Ansett held. Great in theory but beautifully protected from any loss of face with NZ as the interface if something went wrong. It did - 9/11 - 48 hours before the axe fell and Ansett was grounded.

No white knight arrived, beautiful shielded by their blind using NZ with the board members delightfully invisible. No face lost there. Now - the next move.

The rights still being the holy grail for SQ, an immediate threat arrived with the attempt by Ansett crew and staff to restart the airline with a bid from the employee group. Bid came up from the employee group and various others.

Funny thing that - the Fox - Lew bid was tentatively accepted after drawn out negotiations and the funds from the pilots/staff group and others had expended their viable funds.

Strange that the bid was then withdrawn. One of the 2 involved was at a local club 12 months later and I asked the question on how big was the payout from SQ? I am 127 kilos and was shuffled out of the way by minders of a certain person who had assumed a non healthy purple colour.

So - bottom line. SQ still want Pacific rights ex Australia. Virgin are operating trans Pacific ex Australia. The Ansett collapse failed due to 9/11. Wounds licked, now let's wait.

Any SQ members on the Virgin Australia board?

Danger Will Robinson, Danger.

Best all

EWL

Hedging fuel can work against you too.

If they did it right as suggested all the more reason that they should be making bigger $$$$$. The mail room guy is not up to the finer points of actually running an airline. It's easy to be everyone's friend but it's a tough industry that requires tough love to make it work

They gambled the wrong way and are paying more for fuel than QF. This is costing big bucks now

NZ is their IATA code. Their ICAO code is ANZ.

Cathay Pacific are also getting burnt at moment as a result of their fuel hedging policy, so its not just Virgin!
I think one of Virgins core problems is running 2 very small fleets of different wide body Aircraft?

Pot, kettle, black!

A few years ago I would have agreed. The evidence over the last year and a bit is to the contrary.

Of course, I lament what may have been if the focus had been on mainline from 2008-2013 instead of seeing everything over that time frame through orange and silver coloured glasses.

As the Boys of Summer said Keg "Don't look back you can never look back!"

Presumably left is OK though? :O

:ok: :cool: :D

Air NZ announced today it's bailing out of Virgin Australia ...

Last one leaving please turn off the lights..

I did say earlier in the thread, that Air NZ had learned their lesson.

This just proves it, they are more than happy to get out while they can and leave the others with deeper pockets to fight it out amongst themselves over the dead (or dying) carcass.

Would it be more of a concern if Air NZed increased their shareholding and continued to veto any meaningful route expansion at board level. Kiwis are a very proud and protective species. Virgin may have managed to unshackle from some unwanted influence.

TBM. What is your data source to suggest ANZ is getting out of Virgin? I cannot find any ASX reference to this

After 36 years or whatever it was, QANTAS probably had a fairly good idea who'd be the better CEO.
Looks like they might have been right!

Todays newspaper>>

read this AFR report

No it is not, it is their IATA designator... all IATA codes are 2 letters or a combination of letter and number (e.g. 3K for Jetstar Asia).
Their ICAO designator is ANZ, all ICAO codes are 3 alpha... e.g. VOZ for VA, QFA for QF, AAL for American/AA.

Obviously another good Air NZ investment!

I don't see that SQ will EVER operate on the Pacific, even the US with all their free-trade rhetoric will scream bloody murder as it will hurt their airlines operating on the route, also, because there is no justification for it whatsoever, they are NOT an Australian or US carrier and thus not majority owned and controlled in Australia.
Obviously, if they take 100% of VA, that would likely mean 49% of VA/I and effectively get what they want anyway but there will never be SQ metal operating on that route, it's a bridge too far for US, Australia and NZ.

Because Europe has 743,000,000 people, the USA has 319,000,000 and can sustain it, we are a small market of 23-30,000,000 if you include NZ. I just don't think it will fly so to speak. If it's so important that they do, then why don't we just shut down NZ, QF, JQ, VA and VAI and just liquidate all their assets, turn over our sovereignty to Singapore and give up. I don't know when the penny will drop as we just drop barrier after barrier in the name of free trade and other countries put up every barrier they feel like - however, nothing would surprise me with the pathetic standard of personnel we have in Parliament but it would be totally abhorrent for it to happen, SQ is a government owned airline (let's not argue about that, Temasek and others are owned by the SG government) so that is not a level playing field. Yes, NZ is government owned but it's domiciled in this region.