Qantas 787 recruitment for cadetship
 

Anyone know when QF's 787 recruitment for cadetships will come about?

Cheers in advance

How's it going fly boat north :)

FBN jokes aside, the rumours are of QF recruiting restarting by the end of the year. Whether this is through cadetships, or direct entry or another method isn't known, but several ranks in some fleets are apparently short now, so recruitment could be onto non-787 fleets in the near future.
I've also seen those "QF approved Year 12 Maths" bridging courses being advertised recently, some people must have an idea of what's about to come ;)
I'd say the recent link up between UNSW and Qlink would give a big hint on how the group's recruitment strategy might be in the future

Would those rumours be for end of this year or next? The QF SO thread rumoured recruitment to begin end of 2016.

Getting warmer.......

Yeah sorry, end of 2016/ start of 2017 ish

I wonder...
 

Expect a lot of churn in 330 training to underpin the migration to the 787 that will occur sometime around November 2016*.So there may be some internal shuffling starting a few months prior...perhaps as early as June-July. That process should trim any remaining surplus on the 737 and A380.

I think 787 S/O training courses might start 11-13 months from now, depending on sim schedules and projected delivery dates. Qantas could of course get the other ranks all done first and only take on S/Os later in 2016. (On edit: that should have been "later in 2017")

My colleagues all have horror stories about the chaotic nature of the recruiting process in boom years, so candidates probably should not have high expectations about something the airline has forgotten how to do.

I would be really surprised if cadetships are in the cards...surely there is a deep pool of experienced applicants with jet or turbo-prop time who can see the age demographics at Qantas and do maths?

* the 787 is senior to the 330, hence most 787 Capt and F/O slots will be from current 330 pilots. The first guess I heard was around 75%.

The intro of the 787 keeps being referred to by AJ and various media as 'late 2017'. If you call that any time from September onward I don't reckon we'll recruit S/Os for the 787 until about May-Jul 2017 at the earliest.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if we start recruiting earlier than that. We still have 50 or so pilots to retire before that point and as you point out Australopithecus, significant churn to go through prior to the intro of the 787 as well.

The scuttle butt I've heard is that most A330 pilots have a bid in. Whether the 75% refers to the amount of 787 slots that will go to A330 pilots in the first year or that 75% of A330 pilots have a bid in for the 787 is something I've not been able to nail down. I've also heard that allocations has done a dummy run on the 787 allocation but not been able to nail down if that's the first year, second year, 2016/17 training year, etc.

Either way, nice to see light at the end of the tunnel for a change.

My scuttle butt is in line with Keg's. The delivery schedule is for 3 B787-9's in late 2107 with 5+ deliveries in 2018. I've heard that recruitment will start mid 2016, mainly due to the shortages on the B747 & A330 fleets & these shortages won't be fully filled by those returning from LWOP.

The recruiting figure is 200+ but I don't know how long that figure is spread over.

I wouldn't rubbish the idea of a QF Cadetship starting up again just because there are "good applicants" from regional airlines or elsewhere.
The QF Cadetship was a strong 50+ year program that churned out high quality pilots from an ab-initio position thru to MECIR and placement. It still has its place, a Cadetship hasn't been run since 2010 so for the last 6 years where have the high calibre applicants been going?
A real shame IMO! We should be nurturing young aviators and encourage striving for excellence in our profession and the sooner that program restarts the better.

There is a big push to recruit directly from Qlink Dash pilots. Why on earth should the group lose a group of very well trained muti crew pilots to foreign carriers. I heard 70 odd F/Os bailed this year to greener/sandier pastures. Cadets would be the last group to be recruited considering the experience levels within regionals/GA and of course the military. Jetstar pilots Might also consider QF.
There is no surplus on the 737. No surplus on the A330. So there will be a lot of churn and I'm hearing bypass could be a way out of short term bottle necks. Either way the training section will be very busy soon with those returning from LWOP and a new aircraft intro.
Also hearing that there maybe 17 more commands for the Jumbo.

What about the training for the 8ish B787-800 that are going to be repainted with Red tails next year......:eek:

This is a Rumour forum and that's the current one with some in the know. Then again it could be a Wet Lease agreement. :rolleyes:

FFRATS

Yep, I'd have to agree that there's not a surplus on the 737. Numbers seem about right except when they let too many people go on leave over Christmas and can't crew flights 😁

As for the 787 rumour I've heard anywhere between 1 and 4 current JQ 788s to be repainted in QF colours for domestic flying. As for a wet lease - hah! It didn't happen when the stolen generation went to JQ, so why should it happen now the shoe's on the other foot?

Well, that explains why Qlink has just sent out invitations to candidates for stage 2 psych tests. Didn't expect that to happen so early. Are they expecting an exodus of pilots to mainline?

Smiling Monkey

Still expecting movement to CX and a number (All skippers so far I believe) interviewed with EK. But I dare say you are correct in assuming quiet a few will look at mainline when they start recruitment.

"What about the training for the 8ish B787-800 that are going to be repainted with Red tails next year......"

Nice rumor, but I think mostly wishful thinking. However, group policy right route right aircraft and QF domestic could do with some bigger planes right now.


There seem to be some very "cancelable" JQ 787 sectors. CS/CG Japan, ML WSSS, some of the HNL and China charters that JQ could do without.

JQ showing little interest in any real training (esp to replace the number of 320 cpts recently left) while rostering at max hours and cancelling flights due to lack of crew. Perhaps there is a surplus on the horizon?

I still think it's unlikely though.

In order to stem the blood letting of crews to other group entities apparently rumour has it that the beloved CP has asked Jetstar and mainline NOT to hire QLink crews as that would leave them too short (we're very low on FOs as it is). So call me a pessimist but if the rumour holds true I wouldn't be holding my breath for any movement from QLink to another entity any time soon.

This gentleman's agreement apparently doesn't apply to cadets where the mainline CP has nicely told our CP 'we're taking the cadets whether you like it or not.'

Fuel-Off :ok:

This has had happened in the past when Jetstar was recruiting heavily. But you know what, it'll just piss off the remainig pilot body who wants a career progression and leave for other carriers. The current management team haven't done themselves any favour by driving the regional lifestyle six feet under.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to the cadets but there are plenty of good operators who have contributed to the Qantas group way before the cadets learn to drive, let alone fly. Yet, your career is hamstrung by
management because you work in the group.

The "gentlemen agreement" really pisses me off.

Gentlemen's agreements...
 

...are self defeating. QF goes to great lengths to train guys on the regional networks, gives them lots of great experience in a demanding environment, then sends them off to crew competitor's fleets. :ugh:

Experienced pilots are not the abundant commodity they once were, and providing a clear career progression path would ensure that the group retained most of its people. To do otherwise is a cynical exercise that is designed solely to benefit the "gentlemen" concerned.

Allowing regional guys an entry into mainline does not lengthen the training ladder: If a pilot goes to CX instead of inhouse promotion he still has to be replaced.

If I was a CP who treated people like chattel I would expect to get screwed by the guys often and thoroughly.

Possibly true....
 

but...

... if the only way into QF was via the regionals I suspect that many other well-qualified pilots would not bother applying to QF in the first place. Why would QF make it easier for the regionals to be sapped of pilots if it simply shrinks the potential recruitment pool in other ways?

Perhaps there is a bit of "method to their madness"?

Just sayin'...:O

In reality gentleman's agreements are a load of BS anyway. As if QF will delay courses or park aeroplanes so they don't recruit some arbitrary number of Eastern pilots.

If QF (or any airline for that matter) REALLY wanted to hire you they will, end of story.

Additional to that has anyone actually tested this theory? ie Worked for a QF regional never got called, then changed employers and QF magically calls them a week later? Or is it just people who would never get in anyway somehow justifying why they can't get into QF Mainline?

^^^^^^^!!!!!

I've heard of start dates adjusted a month or so to help out in extreme circumstances.

As for exclusions et al..... Get real

Apart from a ancient divide and conquer strategy there is no sense or reason to multiple Airlines and AOCs in QF that ultimately will be examined as a huge waste of money. American Airlines and American Eagle finally united on one Seniority List as the US began to experience a huge pilot shortage and this process provides a secure supply line of pilots. American(through American Eagle) are recruiting at a rate of 80 a month and United are recruiting at 100 a month. Cathay are recruiting at a rate of 60 a month and many of these pilots are coming from the Regionals. Someone will have to swallow their pride and admit they got it terribly wrong, my guess is no-one will admit to this *&%$&up!

Could you shed some more light on the "Year 12 maths bridging courses" please?

So if 330 pilots get migrated into the 78, will there be more spots open for the 330?

Obviously.

Capt 330 slots then filled by Senior FO's, FO position filled by senior SO's. Junior SO's become senior SO's. New pilots needed to fill the void.

I agree with a previous post; Initial new hires (end of the year?) to probably start on the -400/330. Next year, 787 SO courses. Plenty of movement on the 330 (considering the above). Rumours of a few command and FO slots on the -400 because of incompetent resource planning.

Let's face it. It's the most upbeat the pilot community if QF has been for 8 years now. Must be time for GFC II.

330 Capt slots filled by 737 Capts. Question is will there be enough SO's who would be willing to take the pay cut to 737 FO?

There appears to be an abundance of JQ 787 pilots at the moment with more being trained as we speak.......I wonder?

Nuff said!


Direct entry into the RHS at least for ADL & PER bases would have to be in the realm of possibility.

More likely would be 737 PER assigned to most jnr

Can they assign to 737 F/O? Direct entry 737 F/O PER?

Is there a surplus on SOs at the moment? Or has the flying picked up?

I don't believe that any long haul pilot can be assigned to the B737. However, if a new joiner is offered and accepts a B737 FO slot on day 1, as the most senior bidder, then problem solved. This would be attractive comparing the B787 SO & B737 FO rates.
This represents the mechanics of a "direct entry to B737".

Thanks curtaintwitcher, that was my reading of it as well.

No surplus S/Os in the current flying plan bdcer. Still a few surplus F/Os on one fleet but that's it. Flying has picked up.

Pay cut, seriously???
 

Are you guys for real, yeah sure some of the senior SO's who fly only overtime sectors are making a killing, but the 737 pay scale is nowhere near as bad as it was a decade ago, to the degree that in the last 12 months there would not have been much pay differential between a 737 and 330 FO.

I doubt if any 330 or 787 SO would come anywhere near a 737 FO, particularly now the company appears to be focusing efforts towards mainline and there's a good chance of a few bonuses being paid!

If the 747 and 380 route structure changes with the introduction of the 787 meaning less overtime, many SO's will be facing pay drops on those fleets also.

The real factor for most deciding on a move to the 737 will be their work ethic and if they want to work in a busy, intense environment for career their development.

So are any 737FOs cracking $200k?

They used to give some effort in justifying not taking it. these days its more '**** working that hard for **** coin'.

Hmmm. At last look I thought the 737 flying was sitting at about 65-70 hours per roster? I could be wrong but I thought that was pretty much right for establishment. That is of course until a few promotions from short haul to long haul happen.

As far as S/O's not wanting the upgrade, I can assure you all there are certainly a number of Long Haul S/O's (particularly in the bottom 50-100) who would like the career insurance of a window seat, and who have never been senior enough to have a bite of the cherry, yes, even in ADL or PER (lest they had gone to JQ, where there are now a number of LWOP guys who'd like to come back to QF asap as well).

It is indeed true that most S/O's on the A330 would no longer see too much of a pay cut at all going to the 73 provided the hours stay around 70 odd per month, give or take. Here's hoping after ZERO new training slots last year, that April brings good news for everyone who needs/wants it.


Unlikely.

:} Supposedly JQ have stuffed their numbers as well, to the extent that the rostering of East Coast A320 Flying is becoming a bit of a headache. After no real recruiting for the past couple of years (and at the same time having a number of guys pulling the pin on LWOP, gone to EK, or greener pastures in China), the East Coast narrow body fleet have been on max hours flown for a number of months now. They are scrambling to get 50 or so remaining Cadets on line and to start the recruitment machine again.

Apparently until they are on line, JQ are so short there are 20 odd A320 Commands being withheld because they can't spare any F/Os off the A320 fleet that would fill the Commands and/or residuals onto the 787! :ugh:

Just to clarify, I'm talking about the possible massive training wave in the future, that was implied by my comments about the day 1 direct entry scenario. As I also stated, there will be a large differential between B787 SO & B737 FO take home income, we are talking only about B787 SO's.

I believe most B737 FO's will take whatever seat they can get in Long Haul. Those likely to stay will do so as they perceive that they are senior enough for the LHS. Replacing the B737 FO's will be a major problem. If, and I stress if, things proceed on the scale some optimists anticipate, every current SO will have the seniority for the RHS, and still leave a large hole to fill.

Rotating seniority in LH would just be icing on the cake for them. Years of sh!te rostering has focused the collective mind on taking the first available exit.

bdcer So are any 737FOs cracking $200k?

Easily mate. Any 4th year FO flying the roster as published, not chasing any hours should comfortably do it. A good bonus in September certainly helped but with load factors high, fuel price low, capacity wars over there's no reason bonuses won't continue for the foreseeable future.