Not surprising, but entirely their right to do so.

Atlas Air is hiring Aussies...

Probably sound incredibly ungrateful after the last 2 years but am still tempted to give up a narrowbody gig in Oz with all the E3 positions on offer, especially with some willing to sponsor a green card.. or could be exciting to get in at somewhere like Breeze in the early days..

I did exactly what you're thinking of doing in 2018, although I knew there'd be a green card in my future, so the gamble wasn't really that bad. But the thought of 10-15 years to a command on a 737 and flying to the same 12 cities for the rest of my life made the choice easy.

I'd say keep your gig in Aus and simultaneously apply for the DV lottery every October. If something comes through for you, then consider the move.

The people going to Breeze are definitely taking a shot, and good on them if it works out, to be sub 100 seniority at Jetblue 2.0 could be pretty awesome. It would be an adventure for sure. If you're single, a greencard probably is in your future.

I'd say an LCC here is better than working for Qantas / Jetstar (given the outsider knowldge I have of the job,) but a regional here is not better than working for any narrowbody operator in Aus.

This popped up again this morning:

“We are pleased to inform you we are seeking Current and Non-Current Australian Captains and First Officers to fly the E145 jet aircraft and invite you to attend online interviews!”



https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/14...mpaign=general

To qualify for all the bonuses you must flow to American. That's difficult when you don't have a US green card or passport. They forget to mention this in the job advertisement.

Climb150,

I wondered about that. Haven't seen any evidence (yet) E3s are flowing to AA mainline. :)

Guess we will find out pretty soon.

a few of the PDT hires in 2016/17 should be getting close to flow.

Spirit has announced E3s for those who are in country already on an E3 with an ATP. Announced by a recruiter on LinkedIn. Good luck everyone and have at it.

You can't flow to AA on an E3

You can, just hasn’t been tested yet.

You mean it's possible but nobody has done it?

If AA has made an undertaking to flow it's E3 pilots working for their wholy owned regionals I have not heard about it.

Gidday all, first time long time. I'm wondering if those in the know can share their thoughts on which operators currently offering initial E3 sponsorships they would recommend the highest. Not Including Atlas and Breeze pls.

I am going through the interview process with one group over there and chatting to a few others directly through their recruitment teams.

Which of those regionals do you guys think are in the strongest position? And the weakest? For example I have heard some concerns about GoJet's position and future.

Cheers!

Have any E3s been at an AA wholly-owned regional long enough to be in a position to flow ?

PSA. Forget the rest of them.

You can probably overthink the 'which regional' thing. Weigh up what you want, the staff travel will be better with wholly owned for example, if staff travel doesn't float your boat maybe the bases do? Commutairs pay is significantly lower than most of the rest but in the end, they're all much of a muchness. PSA's QOL is said to be better than the rest.

There’s a small batch at PDT circa 2016/17 hires that will be getting close.

That’s because no E3 has been around long enough for their seniority number to have come up yet. Next 6-12 months will give a fairly definitive answer one way or the other as to how it will pan out.

To say it won’t happen is disingenuous as know one really knows. It could go either way.

H,

With respect, I think that’s an oversimplified view. While I agree that you can’t say that E3’s definitely won’t flow, it’s certainly more unlikely than it is likely. We had this discussion the last time flow of E3’s came up and I still believe it’s more than likely AAG hasn’t even considered the prospect of E3’s in their interview stack. It’s something they’ll only have to consider, when the first one’s number comes up. UAL, while it doesn’t have any flow agreements has recently changed its requirements to “does not need sponsorship” from “legal right to live and work in the US”. This is because ALPA is involved and aware of E3’s.

I would be surprised if the APA doesn’t get involved in the same way. Sure, I may not know the nuts and bolts of it but I would bet my next paycheck on what the general sentiment would be amongst AA pilots if they are made aware that AAG was hiring “foreigners on visas”

Kenny,

It wouldn't surprise me if AA just hasn't ever considered what to do with E3s nearing the end of the flow-up pipeline. They likely didn't expect them to hang on that long.

havick,

Is there a publicly-available AA document laying out the criteria for a pilot to flow from a wholly-owned to AA mainline ? Maybe E3s are mentioned in there ?

This from AA Mainline's pilot quals website. Doesn't an E3 meet them ?:

"Must have the right to work in the United States
· Additionally, we require all of our pilots to have a valid passport and documentation allowing for entry into
the United States after an international flight."




https://aa.pilotcredentials.com/qualifications

Well yes and no.. That’s been the standard requirement for employment at every US airline in the US for the last 20 years, other than Fedex, which had the 5 year requirement to keep the USPS happy and a couple of ACMI carriers that had Uncle Sam contracts. There has never been any sort of Visa that allowed foreign pilots to live and work in the US, either permanently or for a defined period of time. Certainly not one that was transferable.

So, it’s either been US citizen or PRC holder. Now we have another option and it has unforeseen consequences. As far as I know the E3 is only valid for a specific amount of time. We’re simply not at the point yet, where we’re so desperate for pilots, they need to interview, train and pay someone who can’t stay permanently. And that’s not taking the politics of it into account.

I don’t agree with it but the reality is that no one at the legacy level really cares what’s going on at the Regionals, or if they have a few Australian pilots working for them. That changes when those E3’s can start taking slots from either US citizens or PRC holders. Added to which the landscape of the regional world, at least as far as UAL is concerned will be very different. UAL is getting 100 73’s a year for the next 4 years to replace RJ’s and nothing else.

Kenny,

"...the reality is that no one at the legacy level really cares what’s going on at the Regionals, or if they have a few Australian pilots working for them."

Well, maybe at some point they'll have no choice but to care ?

It's getting interesting...and entertaining.

With the announcement of today's merger between Frontier and Spirit, there will now be Aussie's on E3s at the 5th largest airline in the US. That's pretty significant given where we've come from.

As an afterthought, I wouldn't be overly surprised if you see E3s go even further. With this merger, Spirit/Frontier becomes a pretty serious contender. The Aussies will be the only untouchables in terms of being poached by the big 4. Maybe one of the legacies will even out that playing field too.

If you’re currently flying at Spirit, JetBlue or Frontier, your resume is being pulled for an interview asap at UAL.

Apparently, it’s a much more effective and efficient way to bleed the opposition or so I’ve been told.

Breeze airways application process (so far) - Embraers/Airbus A220 for Australian Nationals

1) Apply e3 visa via their own website - tick boxes etc.
2) You will receive a form from HR asking you to complete total hours etc and previous employers
3) If successful, you will be asked to do a video interview - with four pre recorded questions....i'm unsure if they change...and you will need a webcam/mic etc. You have some thinking time and then 2 mins to answer each question.

What has been your weakest area in aviation and how did you overcome that ?
If we gave you or you had some time off, what would you do ?
What has been some of your experiences that guided you / steered you in aviation
Why join Breeze ?

Email notification to say your recorded interview will be accessed by HR and will let you know in due course.
Am now waiting...

Hang on to your hats folks. The US becoming embroiled in international conflict, oil prices dramatically rising, inflation at record highs, a long long overdue market crash and an economic downturn are all more than possible in the very near future…don’t get too carried away just yet lads and ladettes. The bottom of a seniority list is never a good place to be when the s##t hits the old fan.

All this talk of flowing to majors and rampant hiring of foreigners is a wonderful idea but I dare say the world we live in coming out of COVID has got some suprises in store for the aviation industry. Airlines are and have to be reactive to negative events occurring not proactive generally.

Just sayin, keep your expectations realistic, everything may be hunky dory with cotton candy and rainbows for aviation in the coming years, and I truly hope it is. But reading some of these posts comes across as pure fantasy sometimes. I recall the “USAF is looking to hire Aussies E3s to fly fighter jets from a reliable source” posts in this thread some time back and the “AA is contractually bound to flow E3s ALPA said so” that someone who didn’t actually know this to be a fact kept perpetuating…hope that puts things in perspective for some of you.

Sorry to butt in but as an observer to your recent discussions in this thread ( with zero skin in the game ) I have noticed the way you guys use the term ‘flow’.

It strikes me as a word/concept that masquerades or is perceived to have more weight and meaning than what it actually does. Kind of like when a politician promises something during an election and we all know they’re just saying it.

Recently talking about this stuff with people I have noticed it used more frequently as if it’s part of some natural process. Just be careful what you sign up for out there guys and be mindful that perceived benefits don’t always end up to be actually benefits.

If you are a pilot for an AA owned regional (PSA, Piedmont etc) you absolutely have a guaranteed job at AA if you can wait for your number to come up (6 to 8 year wait atm). That's not a rumour or a recruiter trick it's fact.

The question lately is can Australians working at these airlines flow if they are on an E3 and currently the answer is no.

The answer is no one actually knows yet if an E3 can flow, hasn’t been tested yet and really could go either way.

Nobody I know is counting on flow. At the moment it's about an opportunity most Australians are simply not going to get in Australia. There are Australian E3's commanding 50 to 75 seat jets in the US after 2 and 3 years as an FO. That is simply not going to happen in Australia. And all this talk about unrealistic expectations is a bit moot really because the expectations of most are being exceeded. If pilots got to live two lifetimes in Australia you still won't see aviation on the scale it happens in the US. And you'll never get to learn the weather experiences that take place in the US.

Flow, whatever, Green Cards, whatever. It could end tomorrow, but so what. It'll end in Australia before it ends in the US.

I don't understand where this thread is going at the moment.

You can apply to Commutair, PSA, Gojet and maybe Piedmont and Redwing atm without an FAA ATP.

Breeze, Spirit and Atlas want you to already have an FAA ATP and Spirit says already in USA on an E3.

Don't quote me on the finer details of each airline as things change over time.

My point is don't go to PSA or Piedmont and think you will flow if you stay there long enough. Someone on here keeps saying it's not definitely yes or no but I can tell you with a high degree of confidence that it is very unlikely that an E3 at Piedmont or PSA will flow to AA. What do I base this opinion on? Knowing that AA, United etc have very strong unions and hiring short term visa workers would only be tolerated if it meant saving the airline from bankruptcy etc.

Tossbag is right in one thing, there are opportunities here that just don't exist in Australia.

What’s the process for getting your FAA ATP at places like commutair, gojet, Skywest etc? Does your type rating check count as your ATP flight test? How can you undertake the test with an Australian licence though?

The type rating is the ATP flight test as well. the ATP is granted on the basis of holding a foreign commercial licence, instrument rating and the completion of an ATPCTP and Part 121 Training Program. A licence verification letter from CASA is all that's needed.

Tossbag and Climb150's posts sum up the last 20 pages of this thread.

I the see the AFAP are weighing in on this issue of E3 Visas.

What has AFAP got to say?

Sorry I would have put this out earlier, but I got banned for not using punctuation, capital letters and full stops on another thread.

Now that my ban is lifted I can report that Skywest are now actively hiring Australians on E-3s - I had reached out to them in October last year about hiring Aussies and they said ‘not possible’, but a few weeks ago I got an email asking if I’m still interested as they now able to hire Aussies on E-3s and have no limit on the number they can sponsor and are ‘hiring like crazy’. Just thought you guys would wanna know cheers

havick, they are trotting out the scab narrative. Asking pilots to reconsider applying for jobs that many Americans are applying for, and there aren't enough Americans to fill.

That isn’t how I read the email at all.

It said that the E3 had been used in the past by operators to exploit pilots and drive down conditions. It said that it supports ALPA in opposing efforts from dubious operators to exploit pilots and undermine pay.

It also highlighted the pitfalls of an E3 Visa -
which have been pointed out here a number of times. Specifically, that if your employer terminated your employment - then you are likely to have your visa cancelled on very little notice.

It’s nonsense to suggest that there is a scab narrative. There is clearly a shortfall of qualified pilots in the US and that the major regionals are using what is available to them to simply crew flights, and that they are not undermining current terms and conditions.

It was also a case of buyer beware because you’re ultimately in the US on a very specific visa with very specific requirements.

Finally it highlighted that pilots could still access the MBF (Loss of Licence cover) if flying for a US Regional.

All pretty useful pieces of information for someone who is looking at the US that may not have read this thread!