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-   -   Gold Coast ILS (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/560148-gold-coast-ils.html)

Troo believer 26th Jan 2016 02:18

I'll bite.
The A320 isn't as capable as a 737 Ng. Correct me if I'm wrong. We have minima for 3 different RNPs in QF. They are .1,.2and .3. Often you can see an ANP of 0.02. That's a statistical containment of 95% accuracy within 0.02 of a nm.

Derfred 26th Jan 2016 02:37

QF:
RWY14: 393' (372'HAT)/2.2km
RWY32: 285' (272'HAT)/1.6km

porch monkey 26th Jan 2016 02:48

VA currently operate to .1 on ICAO RNP approaches.

Fliegenmong 26th Jan 2016 04:20

Yeah I'm from around these parts SPINEX, same, I'm unaffected....but the way they handled it was atrocious!

Toluene Diisocyanate 26th Jan 2016 10:04

VAA are approved to the aforementioned minima, Lookleft. Based on an RNP of 0.11 :)

Snakecharma 26th Jan 2016 11:33

The use of tailored RNP charts was an expensive proposition - millions per year in licensing fees. Not sure these days but last time I looked it was difficult, if not impossible to justify on the basis of the savings you would make by avoiding diversions. It might be all different with Naverus being taken over by GE, I don't know.

The charts had a significant fee for access each month and given the significant training impost I couldn't see the value in it. Still don't quite frankly.In Queenstown definitely, but not too many other places...

Yes it is great having the capability but do you really get value for your money in an environment where every capability had to fight for funding? I suspect not but I think it got to the point where in order to "keep up with the jones" (or perhaps keeping up with Alex😄) it needed to be done.

amberale 26th Jan 2016 23:01

As I recall one of the perceived advantages of RNP was with departures.
Much higher payloads out of places like CS due to engine failure/terrain avoidance.
Coin counters in QF thought the shorter tracks on some STARS into BN would save track miles and $ but it makes little difference if everyone is holding.

Snakecharma 27th Jan 2016 02:40

The RNP departure ex cairns, if I remember correctly, went straight ahead up the valley - it is some time ago and my memory is getting dodgier by the day.

If I recall the RNP departures stopped not all that long after they started due to the noise abatement issues.

But as I say my memory is hazy to say the best

Jonno_aus 28th Jan 2016 06:03

Cairns 15 departure
 
Non-pilot but worked in and around CNS for many years.

QF trialled the RNP departures I believe? I recall they banked a little left then seemed to follow Trinity Inlet and up the valley.

From memories, it seemed quite a bit quieter near the city as opposed to the current 120 degree turn.

Recal also people complaining over the 'increased' noise from the new departure.

Yet approaches from the south fly right over the city. Confusing.

Capn Bloggs 28th Jan 2016 08:21


Yet approaches from the south fly right over the city. Confusing.
Not confusing, moronic. Bit like the clowns here who put in thousands of noise complaints as we went over them at 5000ft+ at Idle...

topdrop 28th Jan 2016 10:18


QF trialled the RNP departures I believe? I recall they banked a little left then seemed to follow Trinity Inlet and up the valley.
From memories, it seemed quite a bit quieter near the city as opposed to the current 120 degree turn.
Recal also people complaining over the 'increased' noise from the new departure.
Yet approaches from the south fly right over the city. Confusing.
Yep, RNP SID was left turn over inlet up the valley and was separated with the parachute area at Edmonton. There was really only one complainant, because they could see the jet from their balcony, it must be noisier than the SWIFT SID. This person was good at getting the complaints into the press and in the end QF gave up. If the procedure had gone straight ahead behind the apartment complex, there probably wouldn't have been any noise complaints as they wouldn't have seen the aircraft.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Fliegenmong 21st Aug 2017 03:48

Ah...so the ILS at Cooly is going in anyway then??

No Cookies | Gold Coast Bulletin

zanthrus 21st Aug 2017 04:43

Put the ILS in. Screw the Nimbys! Let them paddle their canoes next time they want to fly somewhere on holiday.

ZZOOTT56 21st Aug 2017 16:31

A GLS approach would be simpler and less expensive than an ILS and achieve same results

alphacentauri 23rd Aug 2017 00:38

...and can only be used by less than half the traffic into the Gold Coast

Fliegenmong 10th Oct 2018 10:27

So here we are at the end of 2018...and the below Notam is current..NEW ILS (LOCALISER, GLIDE PATH AND DME) UNDER TEST. NIL IDENT
RADIATING INTERMITTENTLY ON TEST
DO NOT USE FALSE INDICATIONS POSSIBLE
LLZ FREQ 111.1MHZ
GP FREQ 331.7 MHZ
DME RECEIVER FREQ 1072 MHZ
DME TRANSMITTER FREQ 1009 MHZ
FROM 09 202230 TO 11 300600

So....where is the midddle marker located for this installation?

Capn Bloggs 10th Oct 2018 14:29


So....where is the midddle marker located for this installation?
What do you want a middle marker for?

maggot 10th Oct 2018 21:51


Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs (Post 10270414)
What do you want a middle marker for?

To remind me to turn the marker audio off

neville_nobody 11th Oct 2018 00:41


Originally Posted by InZed (Post 10270775)
I am still entirely bewildered in the age of GPS, GLS and RNP approaches that they're installing an ILS...

Does anyone know what / if any certification requirements are needed for a GLS vs an ILS? Perhaps an ILS is actually the more cost effective solution.

The report says that GBAS would be unable to provide a curved approach and will have the same approach path as the ILS. Since the ILS is available to all aircraft it is the preferred option. RNP aircraft still are diverting now with the current RNP minima.

As for the middle marker it will probably be a DME fix off the ILS DME, same as 16L in Sydney.

Anyway we are finally moving into the 20th century so hopefully this will ease the pain at OOL for everyone.


Derfred 11th Oct 2018 02:20

Presumably Air Asia don’t have GLS...


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