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-   -   Virgin ATR grounded in Albury (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/538156-virgin-atr-grounded-albury.html)

j3pipercub 18th Jun 2014 21:43

On that note No Hoper #2,

Was the crews actions to report moderate turbulence as opposed to the truth an error or violation?

Servo, I think the white tail is a different ATR.

No Hoper 19th Jun 2014 07:05

J3pipercub
Perhaps a skills based error on part of pilots

Chocks Away 19th Jun 2014 10:12

Yes, both #1 & #2 boys, having personal insight into the recruiting and watching this from a distance for some time now.
Alot of ass covering from a crew who have showed to be out of their depth, who shouldn't have had "it" at speed in areas of turbulence with the cabin not secured (flighties seated & not braking legs)... AND not reported an AIRREP to ATC immediately for following aircraft; PLUS not disclosed such occurrence(s) to the ginger-beers after landing... SO they can adapt their inspections accordingly.
Airmanship is severely lacking today... but that's just my take on the matter.
Happy landings :ok:

The Big E 20th Jun 2014 02:38


PLUS not disclosed such occurrence(s) to the ginger-beers after landing... SO they can adapt their inspections accordingly.
Airmanship is severely lacking today..
Yes, one would have to agree with the latter. During my 54 years of Industry involvement I have noticed a decline in real Stick and Rudder manipulation, particularly over the last 20 to 25 years. Those who take excessive time to go solo, and the like, should be told it is probably in their best interests to find another vocation, rather than the training organisation just continuing to clip their ticket through student loans etc. irrespective of their poor handling skills :ugh:

tfx 22nd Jun 2014 05:52

Anyone remember Viscounts? We imported two of them, right? two broke up in the air. After the second the then department grounded the type finish, wouldn't even let them be ferried out of the country. Broken up where they stood.

Australian flying conditions and European flying conditions are two different things, it seems.

KRUSTY 34 22nd Jun 2014 06:33

Interesting though, if I recall correctly. One broke up over Botany Bay after penetrating a thunderstorm. That led to the mandatory carriage of Radar for all RPT turbine aircraft.

The other lost a wing on descent in WA due to an incorrectly installed engine mount, or something similar.

Glad to stand corrected.

Flingwing47 22nd Jun 2014 08:29

The other lost a wing on descent in WA due to an incorrectly installed engine mount,
 
Dec 1968

From NTSB report of MMA crash - 26 souls perished

"It was determined that the fatigue cracking and primary failure of
the starboard inner wing main spar lower boom occurred at Station 143 which
almost coincides with the outboard edge of No. 3 engine nacelle."

poor buggers didn't have a chance...:sad:

Capt Claret 22nd Jun 2014 08:48


Anyone remember Viscounts? We imported two of them, right?
Lots more than two. 28 at least.

tfx 22nd Jun 2014 10:11

Oops... twenty two I meant to say. However it was a long time ago and you are probably right.

Brian Abraham 23rd Jun 2014 01:32


Anyone remember Viscounts? We imported two of them, right?
Australia operated a total of 27 (includes 2 RAAF). All removed from service by 1970.

Had a sad history in Australia

VH-TVA crew training Mangalore 31/10/54 3 fatal
VH-TVC thunderstorm Botany Bay 30/11/61 15 fatal
VH-RMI fire in cabin pressurisation blower #2 engine caused wing failure Winton, Queensland 22/9/66 24 fatal
VH-RMQ wing failed at #3 engine due incorrectly installed bush in the lower spar boom 31/12/68 25 fatal

PPRuNeUser0161 26th Jun 2014 10:10

Why is it if this happened to Qlink, QF or JQ the media would go to town and there would probably be some governmental enquiry?????

SN

VBA Engineer 26th Jun 2014 15:40

Because Virgin employees don't hate their employer.

They don't run off to the media or to the easily misled senator with wild accusations.

They allow due process to be followed and corrections to be implemented as intended.

no-hoper 26th Jun 2014 20:54

Flying passengers around in a wreck for five days.And only bs in this thread.

Arnold E 27th Jun 2014 11:11


VBA Engineer
Just as a matter of interest, did you inspect the aircraft in the first instance?

VBA Engineer 27th Jun 2014 22:29

No I did not.

I would have performed a thorough inspection using the required stands.

Strong rumour - Wait for the final report where they publish what the CCTV of the inspection shows.

All will be revealed.

TBM-Legend 29th Jun 2014 05:27


A well deserved pat on the back for Australian engineers; funny, none of the much loved 'off-shore' providers picked it up. Well done I'd say.

Pity those engineers didn't inspect the ATR72 before releasing it for further flight and putting many at risk...

Dagegen 30th Jun 2014 09:56


A well deserved pat on the back for Australian engineers; funny, none of the much loved 'off-shore' providers picked it up. Well done I'd say.

What makes you think it wasn't one of the much loved off-shore providers that picked it up?

Kharon 30th Jun 2014 18:25

O, FFS - Post removed – sense of humour removed – interest removed.

wishiwasupthere 25th Nov 2014 11:35

Looks like it's been repaired to a flyable state. Due to fly out of Aus in the next few days, possibly back to France?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHFVR

ASY68 25th Nov 2014 11:41

Probably to Seletar where all maintenance for the VARA ATRs is occuring

ProProp 28th Nov 2014 23:52

As FVR is now 2 years old, I think you'll find that this is the second to last C Check that will be done in Seletar with all future (apart from the next one) heavy maintenance checks to be done in the Southern Hemisphere.

dubbleyew eight 1st Dec 2014 10:31

I'd hate to be the poor bugger who invested the millions to buy that aeroplane.
you have to wonder just what the cost has been to Virgin and the aeroplane's owner.

ever so glad they started off as multi millionaires. :}:mad:

smiling monkey 1st Dec 2014 10:52


I'd hate to be the poor bugger who invested the millions to buy that aeroplane. you have to wonder just what the cost has been to Virgin and the aeroplane's owner.
Wouldn't the insurance cover it?

DutyofCare 5th Dec 2014 05:31

JUST ANOTHER HUGE MESS
 
It was one of the 1st such repair attempted in the world.

That's only partly the reason for such a very long delay to VH-FVR's return.

The owners would of liaised with the Frogs & the lawyers to help fix this mess.

I for 1 would of loved to be a fly on the wall during those meetings :ooh::ooh::ooh:

Make no mistake, it was a very close call to being the 1st hull loss for ...

If I was the MLO, I would of forced the dysfunctional crew to attend these liaisons.

AND AS FOR THOSE CREWS ??? That's right = all's now OPS NORMAL :ugh:

More of the same in this politically correct,ever becoming $ wasting industry

williwonka 14th Dec 2014 05:10

Looks like VH-FVR is on its way back from Seletar, having arrived there on 27 November, returning on 14 December. Two weeks work. How major was that?

wateroff 14th Dec 2014 10:23

MLO..................

You'd be unemployed...........

Counter-rotation 17th Dec 2014 07:40


The Industry operates on honesty, integrity, trust, and truth. This should be practised and remembered at all times, instead of a tendency to use the smokescreen at times.
Cripes, did someone just actually say that?! A nice sentiment, and how I wish it were true. But come on, what fairyland have you been working / flying around in?


Because Virgin employees don't hate their employer.
Or that? Speak for yourself, and no offence to you, but individual mileage may (ie. will) vary...


They allow due process to be followed and corrections to be implemented as intended.
Sadly this is not always an available option.

Flame away, whatever...

wombat1 20th Dec 2014 08:25

Pretty sure its in Wagga having a paint job done on the damaged section

snooza 20th Dec 2014 09:26

Back in service Sunday BNE-PQQ-SYD-CBR

dubbleyew eight 22nd Dec 2014 13:05

I am advised that the previous post must be in error.

the ATR was repaired sufficient for flight and it was flown back to Toulouse by two of the manufacturer's test pilots.

I think it's destination was Toulouse le rudder in France. :-)

ymmv.

TWT 22nd Dec 2014 18:52

It landed in CBR 6 minutes ago from SYD

VH-FVR ? FlightAware

dubbleyew eight 24th Dec 2014 11:01

rego has been transferred to another aircraft.
the damaged airframe is back in europe.
I have that from a good source.

Going Nowhere 24th Dec 2014 13:36

Well your source is having a lend...

Still shows registered from 06 Nov 2012. C/n 1058.

Does anyone check facts before posting anymore?

Facts are;
It broke
It got fixed
It's now back in service.
:ugh:

Merry Xmas everyone!:ok:

TWT 24th Dec 2014 19:21

W8,as Going Nowhere says,the CASA rego details make no mention of the rego being transferred to another airframe

CASA Search -- CASA Aircraft Register
mmmmmmm
nnnnnnn
nnnnnnn
nnnnnnn

VH-FTS 24th Dec 2014 20:17

W8's comments show you shouldn't believe everything you read in this thread, let alone pprune as a whole.

Capt Claret 25th Dec 2014 09:19

IIRC, in the good ole days, a rego couldn't be transferred from one airframe to another of the same type. Any idea is this is/was correct?

Fris B. Fairing 25th Dec 2014 20:22


IIRC, in the good ole days, a rego couldn't be transferred from one airframe to another of the same type. Any idea is this is/was correct?
Capt Claret

It certainly was the case in said good ole days. I don't know what genius changed the rule but it's caused no end of confusion. One of the more notable results being two DC-3s registered VH-PWN (although not simultaneously).

Rgds

Chocks Away 26th Dec 2014 12:08


Facts are;
It broke
It got fixed
It's now back in service
Instead of sweeping an extremely serious series of occurrences under the carpet... how about some answers for all ?:rolleyes:

Why was it broken? - The pilots were incompetent. Poor CRM, lack of experience... lack of systems knowledge... lack of maturity to report the actual inflight happenings to the on-ground ginger-beer... non-adherence to SOPS... lack of adequate SOPS for such situations... the list goes on. That is why VB stepped in!
What has changed and what has been learnt?
This is what needs to be asked.

dubbleyew eight 29th Dec 2014 06:59


Facts are;
It broke
It got fixed
It's now back in service
those are not the facts.

the aircraft was flown in turbulence on descent at Vmo (maximum operating speed) the turbulence penetration speed is some 50 knots slower than Vmo.

the pilots did not realise that the aircraft was being structurally damaged by the descents.

aircraft continued in service until a bird strike caused a mechanic to have a look at what the damage was.

the inspection showed structural damage that had escaped the manufacturers inspection procedures, (built as they were on slower speed assumptions and lesser structural loads.)

there is obviously more to it than this potted history.

two of the manufacturer's test pilots flew that repaired aircraft back to Toulouse. presumably this will allow the designers to investigate what will be needed in the design to prevent a recurrence.

your mileage may vary.
have a safe flight.
W8

SimBud 29th Dec 2014 07:19


two of the manufacturer's test pilots flew that repaired aircraft back to Toulouse. presumably this will allow the designers to investigate what will be needed in the design to prevent a recurrence.
False: FVR did not fly any further west than WSSL.


there is obviously more to it than this potted history.
True:


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