Qantas pulling out of Singapore ??
 

I assume this post will be met with derision but I think there is a chance that some big qantas routes such as australian capital cities to singapore could be cut this year . What do you folks think ?

The logical response to this is "How will we know??" They have cut it back already from places such as PER and ADL and are down to one flight a day from MEL (excluding JQ) and BNE. SQ are cleaning up and have increased frequencies across the board.

CAPA had an interesting article on this last week and it basically concluded that SIN is a dead-duck for QF because they offer so few onward connections. This is an interesting outcome given 2 years ago AJ was proclaiming RedQ was probably going to use SIN as its Asian gateway.

I'll wait until 27/2 but at the moment it seems QF's Asian strategy is a shambles.

They spent $15 million AUD on the lounge last year so if history with Qantas is anything to go by it would be "logical" to conclude they will do so.

Because their soon to be new owners want them to operate to Dubai. ;)

The logical thing to do would be to run one A380 SYD-DXB-LHR and the other MEL-SIN-LHR (or vice versa).

If you want to get from any capital city to London (barring ADL/DRW) then you can do it all the way on QF metal.

If you're in SYD and want to go somewhere else in Europe you jump on an EK jet in DXB.

Opens up countless more options and will increase loads on SIN-bound flights from MEL/BNE/PER and give people the option of the more popular stop-off in Singapore.

So logical in fact, that it'll never happen! :(

Sadly, VERY SADLY, I think you will find the days of ever going to London with Qantas are nearly over, they will ONLY operate as far as Dubai. :(:(:(

Also I'm pretty sure their "Codeshare" agreement excludes them from travelling from Singapore to Europe anymore, they now have to go via Dubai from what I've read, Kind of ties their hands a bit...

Would Hong Kong be at risk for the chop as well ? Cathay have all the onward connections for Asia and Europe. Code share would be possible but then why not just fly the whole way on CX.

Ixixly

To my knowledge, the only codeshare QF has to Europe from SIN is to HEL with AY.

Actually thought RedQ was the right strategy - it would have given the very needed connections that QF needs out of SIN, but obviously the SQ/Sin Govt didn't like the potential impacts.

Still would be interesting to see what the reaction would be to a 3K sub-fleet with business seats and IFE, operating under a different brand but still operated by Jetstar Asia, but with codeshares to Qantas and now Emirates, and indeed the rest of oneworld.

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Can't see HKG being on the chop, the VS withdrawal should help yield.
More likely chops would be CGK (where Garuda smashes QF on price and frequency and indeed the seats in J), HNL given the JQ competition, JNB subject to ACCC decisions

As for a CX codeshare - QF has been open that they have talked to CX, SQ and MH among others about Asia - problem is QF brings not much to the table. Why would CX provide QF codeshares on all its flights out of HKG when it can just say no and get the pax to book on CX metal

Sorry Bmam7, maybe I didn't explain that clearly, I meant the current Codeshare that Qantas has with Emirates I am pretty sure requires them to have all flights going to LHR to transit through Dubai and no longer Singapore through Singapore.

I thought that this was supposed to be the Asian century? Isn't that what we hear from the business press and from such visionaries as A. Joyce?

Seriously though, both Singapore and HK should support enough O & D traffic in their own rights. The days of the long two sector flight may be over for airlines that do not enjoy crossroads geography. But I don't think that spells a complete capitulation on any of these nearby Asian hub cities.

That said, the completion of the SIN lounge is indeed a worrisome sign. :ugh:

Oh...as far as RedQ goes: name one narrowbody (or widebody, for that matter) premium airline experiment that is still flying. RedQ was never the answer. That question was answered years ago by the Gulfstream V

Flew BNE-SIN-BNE last week J class. Full both ways in the front and back. The new QF lounge is more like a cheap bar in a Gosford pub full of bogans with loud voices, singlets and bad manners. Obviously QF doesn't mind this standard...

It was Emirates and Finnair codeshare..

Ixixly

Thanks for the clarification. You are, I think, quite correct with regards to LHR. I imagine the AY codeshare is because EK don't fly there (yet) and it would mean a 3 hop journey via DXB/LHR or various other European cities served by EK. The EK booking website gives the last leg on Flybe, e.g. FRA/HEL, ZRH/HEL etc.

I would not be surprised. If it happens Jakarta and Bangkok will follow and that's the end of QF as a carrier to South East Asia. Because there is no QF flight to Continental Europe via Singapore or Bangkok I have booke this year with Singapore Airlines. One carrier all the way and no stop in the sand pit. To me it is very obvious why QF Internatinal is bleeding.

Strange, isn't it, all the Australian government and opposition talk about is our Asian friends and the need to strengthen ties with them, so the national flag carrier promptly starts shutting down routes to Asia and forms an alliance with a Middle Eastern airline? An alliance with SQ would have given QF access to all the European routes as well!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/confused.gif


(I did one of the first MEL-DXB-LHR QF flights on the 3 April and later a return, never again. The menu is crap, DXB is not a nice transit airport when transit time is short, i.e. same aircraft, refuel and crew change etc. The 60kms free transport each end is a big plus but I'll be going by Singapore in future)

IM a GA pilot, DAME and an enthusiastic aviation consumer.

As a previous fairly regular Qantas customer to Europe 1-3 times a year for 25 years, my feedback would be that Singapore is really the only Asian City the dear wife will put up with. A distant second choice is Bangkok .

Obviously there is no real discussion about matters of taste, but if a safe clean peaceful rest on the way over is what you want, we have to take the second leg via Singapore Airlines .

We don't (never will) do the Middle East. Period. ( again, a matter of consumer taste).

So thats what we do - Qantas to Singapore, then Singapore Airlines to LHR.

parabellum,
Think its a matter of public record that over years QF has had discussions with SQ, MH, CX about things from mergers to codeshares etc but never been able to come to an arrangement.

On the codeshare front, SQ is much like CX... They don't really need Australian connections as they fly into every major port, and why help QF out by giving them a codeshare out of SIN/HKG, when you can just say no and funnel more traffic onto your own metal.

This is largely because QF deluded themselves into believing they were more important than they are. The Asian carriers were bemused by QF's arrogance and simply increased their frequencies into Australian capital cities thus devaluing most of what QF could bring to the table.

It seems QF have gone completely the other way with EK and become amazingly submissive. If, as is rumoured, part of the deal was QF can never operate into Europe via Asia then QF have given up a huge market for nothing in return. Their submissiveness has not been rewarded by EK though who are happily increasing capacity into Australia with much of the growth being at the expense of QF rather than the Asian carriers.

My J class seat partner SIN-BNE was not pleased with the seat or food etc on QF compared to EK as she was on an EK ticket [code share]

She might have been on a EK staff ticket

Full fare to AKL from LHR...

Well worth a read...
Qantas' pressing need to solve the Asian network dilemma, now its European restructure is in place | CAPA - Centre for Aviation

QF to DXB
 

surely this will become EK & therefore be a QF codeshare before long as well.

BNEA320, how many job losses at Qantas, with all the associated misery and dislocation for those involved and their families, would it it take to truly satiate you? 5000, 10000?

Grub.

Is Virgin Atlantic not a Premier Airline.....

British Airways are going to use their A380s on the LHR - SYD route via Singapore.

British Airways A380s close in on Qantas to London flights | Plane Talking

The Qantas tie up with Emirates sounds like it is reaping benefits.

For Emirates maybe. :(

Or are you being sarcastic. ;)

The load factors and yields to Singapore especially, and to a lessor extent Bangkok and Hong Kong on QF are extremely appalling at the moment. They need a flight through Asia to Europe otherwise they are clutching at straws. The SYD - NRT flight is performing strongly, even with gas guzzling 747's but there are good onward connections with JAL and Japan is at least a joint people want to visit unlike Singapore. Emirates have cleaned up on this deal...well thats not unexpected I guess..

I know it won't ever happen, but why can't Qantas just have 1 flight to London via Dubai and 1 flight via Singapore :ugh:

http://www.tourism.australia.com/doc...3_SING-Web.pdf

In 2012 there were 343,000 visitors from Singapore to Australia. I think in 2013 it grew another 10%, so 377,000

SIA had a 50% marketshare of Singaporeans (note this only refers to Singaporeans travelling from Singapore to Australia, not other nationalities ) to Australia (despite the outrageous fares ex SIN). QF had 16% and Scoot 14%.

In 2008, SIA had a 64% marketshare and Qantas 24%. In 2012, SIA had 50%, Qantas 16% and Scoot 14%. And this is before QF cut capacity to SIN.

I would be very interested in what the 2013 Tourism Australia report on Singaporean visitors shows. (Another interesting note: Without Scoot, SIA had a 64% market share. With Scoot, SIA has 50% and Scoot 14%. Does this mean that SIA's pax just defected to the lower yielding Scoot, and would have flown SQ if Scoot didn't exist?)

In 2013, about 1 million Australians visited Singapore (that is, they cleared immigration) So daily O&D demand between Singapore and Australia is around 3700. It's not exactly insignificant, enough to fill 13 fully loaded A330s.

Well I can tell you one thing. Ex SIN to anywhere in Oz on EK is always nearly full. I'm not going to say its full all the time, but the load factors are constantly high.

I suspect that is a personal opinion rather than a statement of fact! The two hour drive from the airport to Tokyo, for example, would put me off, apart from which the traffic figures from Australia to Singapore don't support your argument, A of A.

..because apparently the geniuses on the QF Board agreed to a deal that meant QF is no longer able to operate direct services between Asia and Europe/LHR.

Where is a will, there is a way. If QF would be serious to get out of the EK commercial agreement they would find a way to do it. OK there are certainly penalties to do so but I cannot see any alternative as the current sitatuation costs QF a lot of business. I mentioned here before that I do no longer book QF (nor EK) to Europe as I prefer to stop over in Singapore. And I am not the only one.

By the way, Web Jet advertises today Emirates flights to Europe from $ 1,770 return cattle class. No mentioning of the faithfull partner Qantas. What :mad: deal did AJ sign here?

While 27 Feb's announcement will be interesting (perhaps in many directions) perhaps someone at QF is actually thinking. In this I refer to the earlier departure from PER of the QF flight to SIN. Makes connections to the remainder of SE Asia a little more convenient. Why there is a 3K flight departing at almost the same time (OTOH) makes me wonder about the marketing team.

The real issue is that QF/3K connections are not transparent. Not that flying 3K thrills me.

Happy wandering

Fred

Qantas' Destiny
 

If Qantas survives the criminal stupidity of the Green Fairy it will likely morph into a small regional carrier servicing secondary airports in Asia.The US will disappear into the EK network while South Africa head the same way

If QF can't succeed on the Australia - South Africa route, then it probably can't succeed anywhere. Given the large numbers of emigrants from SA now living in Australia, the lack of competition from hub based airlines who can offer reasonable flight times and the weak competitor in South African Airways, they should be cleaning up on this route.

Just did the Singapore Brisbane business class last night, pretty full flight, 747-400 flown by 2 captains. Was a great service, cabin service manager was energetic, recalled everyone's name on the top deck. Good seats/beds. I think the lounge in Singapore is excellent too. (Someone commented earlier it looks like a bar in Gosford :) )

It is hard to believe that with such great people, and with Australians generally with all other things being equal,preference to fly QANTAS that the airline could be going backward so fast.

Maybe naive but i think a good manager could turn it around fast. First obviously restore routes to UK and codeshare on to Euroope via Asia as a top priority. I like most others i know wont fly via Dubai. Then market it as the safe and reliable option flown by Australians, not necessarily the very cheapest. Once there is demand, everything else takes care of itself.

Anyway congrats to all those working hard at Qantas like the people last night. Hope the right management comes soon.