Aviation sector on brink of collapse, Gary's not happy either
 

So says chief operating officer at Rex, Gary Filmer.

Discuss?

Like airlines in the US trying to compete with Chapter 11 operators, I blame again that revolting little twerp at Qf and his cabal of thieves for deliberately ruining not just an airline, but now an industry that once led the world. The Leper e chaun has big coffers (though he is working hard on that problem) and would probably see Rex as collateral damage. It may be harsh, but I see Jetstar if not the root of all evil (it wasn't around for Anita Cobby for example) then certainly up there! And it in itself is failing.... It was responsible for the madness in fare slashing and now the industry is reaping as it sowed. The ridiculous thing is, Australians are NOT adverse to paying a fair price for a fair product... I knwo the argument for setting it up was to protect Qf from LCC's but the reality seems to be Qf needed more protecting from its own management than any genuine commercial competition.

Too many of these flogs have cried wolf far too many times for anybody to believe them/give a rats toss.

sounds like
 

these airlines (Rex, QF etc.) want less workers, to do a lot more hours, for a lot less pay.

Next thing they'll be bringing in workers on 457 visas, as they'll say they can't get the workers here !!!

They did it to taxi drivers, so why not airline employees ?

+ possibly more offshoring.

FJ's & AA's call centre is answered in Suva Fiji by a company called Mind Pearl.

Not very well trained & when you consider Fiji just raised their minimum wage to $2/hour, that's Fijian peso, not AUD$ or about USD$1/hour, it's no wonder many companies are looking to offshore.

Apparently Philippines is flavour of the month.

On the other hand Borghetti has been quoted as saying something to the effect, that bringing call centres back onshore, actually makes the airline money, by being able to communicate properly with callers & selling something or upselling, rather than just being a poor quality info supplier.

Of course over regulation would have nothing to do with it?
Perhaps the answer is to operate everything here on the NZ register.
Passing strange that in NZ the aviation industry seems to be doing very well
in all sphere's, while ours slowly spirals down the gurgler.

Over regulation is one of the major causes. I suggest reading the release from Rex yesterday in conjunction with the Chairmans Report in last years Annual Results AND the incoming Minister of Infrastructure aviation Policy - not much has been done to fix the mess left by Albo!!

Holding Libs to account
 

Looks like Rex Management are doing a good job attempting to hold the Libs to account....

Rex welcomes Coalition Policy for aviation

Recalling promises made prior to the election...

The Coalitions plan for aviation

what re the restrictions
 

when it comes to operating aircraft domestically in Australia on NZ register ?

I see Alliance does it or did ? + others.

Yet another call for a bailout. Must be nice working for an organisation where you can hold a gun to a politician's head. Tip for the Libs/Nats: ignore them! Let the market sort it out. That said, how about some changes to the market so that the market can do its stuff and work it out? Keep working on removing the carbon tax.
Step 1: A broom through the CASA to get the regs sorted out.
Step 2: Get rid of RPT designations. An aviation company either meets the requirements to fly or it doesn't.
Step 3: Invest in some infrastructure. Build some aerodromes. Give some money to the states to allocate it towards aerodromes as they see fit.
Step 4: Sydney Kingsford Smith is dead as the prime international aerodrome! The realization that Sydney is no longer suitable as the international gateway to Australia is important so that organisations can move forward with other options.
Step 5: Let Qantas, Virgin and Rex sort out their own problems.

Did you read the same article as the rest of us?

some ex Brindabella routes no one wants !!!
 

so what happens to old Brindabella routes that no one wants ?

Do they need to be subsidised ?

eg. OOM(Cooma) has been isolated.

Years ago Air NSW (part of Ansett) think it was, did nonstop BNE/OOM on Sundays using an F28 jet.

Same aircraft operated SYD/OOM as well.

At this moment no one flies SYD/OOM in winter !!!

Makes it hard to get to NSW ski resorts this winter unless Rex does pick up SYD/OOM.

CBR is 90 mins north of OOM by road (so 3 hours extra road travel per trip) & on weekends both QF & VA have reduced services by reducing size of aircraft.

re step 2 above

"Step 2: Get rid of RPT designations. An aviation company either meets the requirements to fly or it doesn't."


Seems crazy that any airline could have done charters day after Brindabella fell over even if not currently doing any RPT, but the likes of Rex had to go through proving flights before they could operate routes such as SYD/COBAR & SYD/MUDGEE on an RPT basis.


See

http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...-services.html

I think the writing is on the wall for Oz.

By the end of 2017

All automotive manufacturing and associated support industries will have ceased to exist.

The majority of farmers will have walked off the farm as the major supermarket chains increase their imported stock lines to almost 100%.

Any other manufacturing in oz will be on its last legs in the face of cheap imports.

The Chinese will be buying almost all their raw materials from Brazil.

The AUD will plummet to close to 40 cents US, the federal gov will hike interest rates massively to try to stem the fall.

Within 15 years of 2017 the federal government will be effectively bankrupt as the tax base from GST and PAYE tax falls to 20% of the 2014 revenues at the same time centrelink payments balloon 1000%

The various union movements still cry out that they have secured the best conditions in the world. They will be correct, for the 3 people in Australia that still work.

I think we all have to get used to the idea of tough times ahead.

'nom' you could be on the right track there but I'd say a lot further down the line for that end result. (well I hope so!):-)

That tag we have now 'The lucky country' is only hanging on by a thread I believe & we simply are being priced out of our own country.
Aviation in this country is a shambles, we don't deserve to have one!


I've said it on a few other threads what we need is a new ice age, start afresh!:-)

I'm saddened to think what we are leaving our grand children, a real mess:ugh:

Wmk2

if China is forced to float the Yuan, then the table will get a real shakeup! it will make products from here look a lot cheaper. but by the time that happens, we will have no manufacturing left

nomorecatering,

as sad as it is, I would have to agree with your loose assessment of the Australia to come. Unfortunately we can't go on any longer sitting her smugly announcing that we managed to avoid any real pain in the GFC of just a few years ago. I think our downfall is going to be 10 times as painful.

Would it be silly to suggest countries we previously looked upon as "3rd world" to a degree such as China, India will be the new world powerhouses ?

There is a book written by Andrew Liveris(An Australian) who is the current Chairman and CEO of the Dow Chemical Company called "Make it in America"- A Case for reinventing the Economy" where he highlights the countries that are wealthy and will become wealthy are the ones that actually make things e.g. China, Taiwan, Japan,Germany and even Brazil and India. He is head the Obama task force that has been charged with recreating the US manufacturing industry. He laments the translation from a manufacturing driven economy to a service-based economy(sound familiar?) and the fact that the middle class have been decimated. He speaks of Government policy being the main driver in the demise. The US, like Australia, has an almost hostile approach to manufacturing and such things as corporate taxes and energy costs are the main culprits. Andrew says the US government should and they are provide subsidies against energy costs which means a reversal of this manic push to privitise everything and move to be able to have a platform where industry are allowed to get on with it and the emphasis should be on innovation and education in the engineering areas(no not financial engineering, we have had enough of that!). Engineers build things as opposed to Accountants.Maybe Australia would do well to engage Andrew and bring him home before this gets ugly.

don't forget about the public servants
 

but how will they be paid ? With the Aussie peso ?

Loaf of bread might cost AUD$2billion like Zimbabwee.

BNEA320 - are you still on uni holidays? Getting bored so filling up your day with useless pprune posts? You really sound like an amateur - give it a break for a while. Notice no one else is replying to any of your comments? You're not as intelligent about the aviation world, or the world in general, as you think you are. Anyone who has been around the industry a while can tell most of your posts are dribble. But then again, when I was 19 I thought I knew it all too.

have plenty of spare time while doing my MBA
 

sounds like have hit a nerve !!!

If you don't like what's being said you don't have to read it.

No nerve hit, just letting you know you sound like a GFPT-holding planespotter who thinks that riding in a jet jump seat once makes you some kind of airline expert. You sound like Compylot, but most of use realise he was 'made up' for a bit of a laugh. Leave the real discussion to the adults next time.



I'd do that, but the ignore button seems to be missing.

Lodown, good pick up with your 4 points.
Pleased to say point 3 is already on the move.
Point 4 also is with the Badgery Creek announcement... always thought Richmond was the go but better people than I, in the know have decided.

BNE320...Cooma is a basket case and always will be so long as it has the current Eden/Monaro Shire Council and remains on a major road link. We looked into ops closer to the NSW resorts when doing Hotham Express (expansion of Jindy ALA or new runway other side of lake) but came up against hurdles at every turn. Enough said.

Rex of course has their own motives, being driven ruthlessly by Singapore while enough has been said about QF management and motives elsewhere here.

Interesting point nomorecatering, regarding farmers. No where else in the world is the grocery/food supply chain controlled by just 2 players, at such a high market share (~95% I recall reading?).

So "Aviation on the brink of collapse"? There are many fundamental issues wrong with the current structure of Australia... many mentioned above already. It's gonna take many years to turn around this "FUBAR" left behind but like NZ it can be done.
In aviation lets just start by getting the "muppets" out of admin (aka the UK BMI turkeys who thought they could run an antipodean regional -Brindy).
One things for sure, this inquiry into thug Unions & corruption is going to answer a lot of questions over why its expensive here and why the car manufacturers are bailing.

:ok: Happy landings.

In case you missed it..:rolleyes:


REX begs for Govt help, but what about Pel-Air victims?

Now that's a little bit more relevant to the here and now! :ugh: And the thread of course..:E

Why is it everybody is so inward and myopic about aviation in this country.

The current ailments with third level airline operations can be sheeted home to basic economics 1.01

Firstly very short haul airline routes are only successful when there are two criteria.

1. There is sufficient dynamic mass (population or freight demand) to warrant the size of the aircraft being operated.

2. There is an impediment to other forms of transport, ie rail or road

An example of this is Bathurst. In the 1950s Butlers ran a variety successful service. This was due to critical mass being met and the road journey was long due to the nature of the roads and cars in those days. Look at it now mass remains the same (DC3 vs SAAB 340 similar loading) BUT the roads have improved and the motor vehicles are more efficient.

Now take a regional long haul, Wagga or Broken Hill, both have critical mass and both are sufficiently distant from Sydney to be an acceptable alternative to driving.

For all the beating about Brindabella, they serviced routes that were just not viable either in demand for the size of the aircraft or alternate transport cost models.

Country residents of NSW especially had better get use to reduced air services. The only way they will ever have economic services that are efficient and warrant an operator getting a fair return is either

1. Hub and Spoking from such centres as Dubbo, Coffs Harbour, Tamworth etc.

2. Accept regional services from their town to Bankstown where the huge costs levied by Mascot airport are reduced off the air fares.

But neither of these options would be accepted so the inevitable will occur, like Victoria where regional air services have all but disappeared.

And before the pundits who haunt these hallows start telling me I haven't a clue, my face was both a Butler and Air NSW captain and I have lived with regional airlines all my life.

PS.

The only absolutely safe regional route is Sydney Lord Howe. And why because it is a monopoly both in operators/fares and because for all practical purposes the only means of transport

Welcome back Compylot :ok:

Yeah you got me, I must be a bit uptight from those stall recoveries. My legs are tired too from picking up the dropped wing with only rudder, hence the extra grumpiness. I'm looking forward to area solo one day, but more so can't wait to fly with you in the sim in the future - you've got some great CRM ideas that the old timers just don't get!

Anyway, time for me to bow out of this discussion so it can get back to topic.

Don't get me wrong DHCpilot, I'm not bleating about Brindy, it just suited my argument. Yes, supply and demand as you say but I was also adding the poor management factor on top, given both Aeroduck & Brindy were viable operations quietly tapping away prior.
The Hazo board disregarding Max and cutting the Avalon run is another example I could have used, or Skytrans. It took Hazos just 3 months for that Avalon sector to make $$ for them until the board in their wisdom cut it. Anyway...
Airlink & DM is a good example of successful hub & spoke ops that you mention. As was Tamair and Singleton Air Services. O'Connor & Sharp Aviation too.

interesting idea
 

"2. Accept regional services from their town to Bankstown where the huge costs levied by Mascot airport are reduced off the air fares."

Bankstown costs way lower than Mascots & who actually wants to go to Sydney CBD anyway ? Something like 3/4 of Sydney population live closer to Bankstown than Mascot anyway.

Think there's currently a cap on RPT services into Bankstown. Is it 12/day ?

+ Rex wouldn't want to fly to Bankstown, as they are scared of being shut out of Mascot to be replaced by bigger aircraft, who pay much higher fees.

Also ignores those who fly regional airlines to connect to International services. Much harder at Bankstown...

Anyhow Rex will make a lot more profit than Qantas and Virgin Australia combined this year!

how many regional passengers at SYD connect to other services
 

with some towns having only 1 service a day, eg. SYD/NAA/SYD not going to connect with many international services, so would presume that many NAA originating passengers, are used to idea of having to overnight in Sydney anyway. Who wants to sit at Mascot all day !!!

Bankstown is about a 20 min drive along M5 to Mascot. Thrifty rentals are at Bankstown Airport, just outside main gate on Marion St.

They would probably pick up passengers at the terminal. Think it's less than 1km.

Could do a 24 hour car hire for around $70 dropping off at Mascot. Add about $5-$10 for fuel.

Bankstown as the alternate to Sydney?

Why is it every time it is mentioned you get the same arguments no transport, other operators take over their mascot over country town routes.

Perhaps an analysis of economic cost benefit would be appropriate.

TRANSPORT

Anyone who has seen a plan of Bankstown knows that BAL has had plans for a terminal on the old dhavilland/Boeing site.

Next look at Henry Lawson Drive from the M5 to Bankstown, you will notice there is a corridor that would allow an extra lane either way. Next anyone who travels this road will tell you that large number of obtained trucks use it to access Woodville Road.

If Henry Lawson Drive was widened then the transport solution would be satisfied - shuttle buses for those that need transport to Sydney or Mascot. His also applies to rail here the option is too rail lines Bankstown and East Hills.

PROTECTED ROUTES

This is a no brainier. As most NSW routes are regulated by the State Government control of who flies where is controllable hence other operators can be shut out of a route Mascot to Country town if the encumbering elected to go into Bankstown.

FARES

I would estimate that a Banktown bound flight would easily save the travelling public around $60 off each seat.

Reductions such as this would actually stimulate traffic and the loser would probably be Countrylink. If the $60 savings was applied to a Dubbo flight against the rail fare it may actually come close to parity on some fare options.

LOCATION

Everyone who says Bankstown is unacceptable, should stop and think. In all likelihood Badgreys will be selected by the Abbott Government and here the hell is it -Western Sydney.

Finally what qualifications does this writer have

1. A Structural Engineering Degree majoring in road bridge and traffic design
2. Business degree in tourism management and transport management
3. 40 years in aviation

Ah, but we forget BK is owned by real-estate sharks who are severely getting their fingers burnt as they thought they wouldn't actually have to run an airport, just price aviation out of it then flog off the real-estate.
They would rub their hands with glee at the fees they could bilk from a captive commuter airline with nowhere else to go. Then of course the other parasites on aviation such as the "security Industry"would move in and before you know it air fares would be unaffordable.
Before you even started flying there's the hundreds of thousands of dollars needed just to get the AOC, long before you even sourced an aircraft. Maintenance costs are three times as expensive as elsewhere due to over regulation, hell its costing tens of thousands of dollars just to induct a pilot these days with the Bul.sh.t CAsA require.
With our current regulator and their current regulations I cannot see any sane person investing in aviation in Australia. Maybe when it finally collapses here the Kiwi's might make a go of it using their regulations.

would flights out of Bankstown rather than SYD be protected ?
 

interesting question.

Regarding security, don't think there would be any requirement at Bankstown as don't think a Dash 8-400 can get in & out with a full load, so no requirement for security, as per most Rex routes, except at SYD end.

Another question ... if Rex used another terminal at SYD such as the old original Virgin terminal, if it's not already occupied by someone else, they wouldn't have any need for expensive security, would they ?

Speaking of Kiwi regs, when a NZ registered aircraft operates in Australia, on a NZ AOC, who's rules apply ?

Plenty of existing AOC's around flying aircraft that could operate in & out of Bankstown with a decent number of passengers to make it viable.

BNEA320- You may care to read your regs. ATSR 2005 prescribes requirements for airports requiring Transport Security Programs(TSRs) and you will find that the Q400 sits in the category that requires screening and while charter up to 20,000 kg is allowed without screening there is pressure to reduce that and in fact the draft regs that are being discussed move to more stringent requirements, brought on by political pressures of course. Over 50,000 passenger per year is another requirement. The triggers impose costs on airport owners which of course are passed on to operators and ultimately the passengers. I think the Saab and older Dash 8 are fine at the moment. Of course we could move to more efficient and cheaper(less safe) overseas models but at what cost?

Busdriver007,
Just why do you think "more efficient and cheaper" translates to "less safe".

There is no evidence that the CASA micro-management of aviation to a standstill producers "safer" outcomes, excepting, of course, with no aircraft flying there will be no accidents.

If you care to have a close look at accident statistics (using ICAO definitions) you will find the Australian record quite ordinary, and you will find the US leads the word in all statistical categories of safety outcomes.

Tootle pip!!

DASH 8-400 !!!
 

that's exactly what I said.

If a dash 8-400 could get in & out of Bankstown might be a Dubbo type situation.

dash 8-400 too heavy
 

for bankstown. think mtow way over 20,000 kg

As has been said many times: Australians want to live their current lifestyle without being prepared to pay for it. Have a look at the cost of living on Sinapore, Japan and Europe! And yet, Singapore is just about the economic centre of the world, Japan is one of the most prolific manufacturing centres of the world (behind China and India) and Europe still manages to keep its aviation and certain manufacturing industries (eg. cars) going, despite the ongoing woes of the Eurozone.

Perhaps Australia needs to return to the "old days" of being a bunch of protectionist a***holes. Hike tariffs for anything imported into the country, use those tariffs to subsidise our own industries to kick start manufacturing and farming again.

But of course no one would vote for the party that carried that policy to an election because everyone only wants to pay $500 for a 50" plasma at JB Hi-Fi, not $5000...