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An interesting exchange from Tuesday the 18th hearing.
Senate Hearing 18th March 2014 transcript (my BOLD) Senator XENOPHON: That is all I needed to know from you. Mr Joyce, can you please tell me what happened in that four-month period to cause such a massive turnaround in the statements that you made. Mr Joyce : Mr Evans is going to answer that question. Senator XENOPHON: No, I would like you to answer it, please. Mr Joyce : I am happy for Mr Evans to answer it. Senator XENOPHON: I would like you to answer it. Mr Joyce : He has the facts. Mr Evans : The situation is that the two statements are completely consistent with each other. If you go back to that time, the business was recovering from the GFC. This was in February 2011. The GFC hit us in financial year 2009. We began recovering from that in financial year 2010 and recovered further in financial year 2011. The comment that was made on 17 February was around the recovery that the business was seeing. Our yields had improved in that year, but that was a recovery from the GFC, when we saw our yields decline by approximately 25 per cent across the business as a whole. We also said in that 17 February statement, if you read on: While demand on key international routes continues to improve, the international environment remains challenging. We remain committed to improving the performance of Qantas' international business. So even on 17 February we called out that there were challenges in the international business. Subsequently, on 22 June, we clarified for the first time—because prior to that we had talked about Qantas in totality—the performance of the international business separately, and subsequent to that we have clarified it more and it is now a separate segment in our financial statements. But the fact that the Qantas business as a whole in that first half of the financial year 2011 made $165 million, which was part of the statement on 17 February, in no way indicated that the international business was making profits.Senator XENOPHON: Sure, but the share price, as I understand it, fell by about 27 per cent from 17 February to, I think, 23 June. There was a significant decline in the share price in that period—was there not? Mr Evans : I do not recall the exact share price across that period. Senator XENOPHON: But there was a drop. Mr Evans : This is a tough environment and there was a wide range of reasons that the share prices moved. Senator XENOPHON: That was the first time you advised the market about Qantas international on 22 June 2011? Mr Evans : That is correct. CHAIR: I am going to allow you latitude because it is your time, to some extent, but we are here looking at the bill and I think you can only draw a very distant relationship with what you are inquiring about. Senator XENOPHON: I do not want to burn up time arguing with you, Chair, but the fact is these are relevant matters in terms of considering the bill. CHAIR: I just draw your attention to the purpose of why we are here, but it is your time. Senator XENOPHON: And I say that it is relevant to that purpose. Thank you, Chair. From 17 February 2011 to just prior to the announcement on 22 June 2011, did any Qantas group director or executive meet or brief any institutional investors? Mr Evans : I cannot recall what briefings took place. Jan 2011 Monthly traffic statistics Total International (Qantas and Jetstar International operations) yield excluding foreign exchange for the financial year to January 2011 increased by 11.1 percent when compared to the corresponding prior year period. Total International (Qantas and Jetstar International operations) yield excluding foreign exchange for the financial year to February 2011 was 10.2 percent higher when compared to the corresponding prior year period. Total International (Qantas and Jetstar International operations) yield excluding foreign exchange for the financial year to March 2011 was 9.3 percent higher when compared to the corresponding prior year period Apr 2011 Monthly traffic statistics otal International (Qantas and Jetstar International operations) yield excluding foreign exchange for the financial year to April 2011 was 8.7 percent higher when compared to the corresponding prior year period. International (Qantas International, Jetstar International and Jetstar Asia operations) yield excluding foreign exchange for the financial year to May 2011 was 8.4 percent higher when compared to the corresponding prior year period. |
Could they not just be using language that is conversant with getting round the Hong Kong AOC restrictions?
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Am very surprised that Ken B as such an issue with Steve P. I would be very happy for SP to represent my interests.
I am after someone who has done their homework, knows the issues 'inside out' and is basing their submission on FACTS. AJ can't even remember what he said a few months ago, has to constantly refer to others, and it seems knows very little about the business he is 'running' I though SP handled the Q&A very well! You're not management are you Ken? |
Fedsec can fly Virgin if he wants. The benefit of flying Qantas provides nothing to the members and they would be happy that Fedsec has adhered to hs principles.
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I just dont buy this JHK crap. Who are the actual lease companies for these jets and is there any residual liability (ie side deal) that says QF will fund it on behalf of JHK. Makes no sense that anyone would lease to a start up with no parental (even at 30% even if that is true) guarantee!!!
The other thing is that if I was a shareholder in a company that was reporting losses over $200m I would be really pissed off that someone got it so wrong that $30m to $50m was being pissed up against a fence and the best management could say was....this is normal because ..... Sorry I dont care. As one famous Kerry Packer said to a group of Execs...what the phark have you guys done with MY money. If you are making profits I would cut some slack but NOT in the times when things are so bad they ask the govt for a bailout of any kind. So where is the accountability for the $$$ these guys (and I mean them all from AJ right down the J line) |
Qantas A330's leased to Jetstar International
I noticed this last in Hansard.
Senator XENOPHON: Does it sublease any aircraft used by any Jetstar entity? Is there any subleasing going on between the two? Senator XENOPHON: And that market rate is at a higher value than you lease it for? Mr Evans : Yes. Ms Hrdlicka : You are talking about Jetstar Asia, Singapore— Mr Evans : Just to clarify, this is just for Singapore. Ms Hrdlicka : Singapore only. Senator XENOPHON: Any other entities? Mr Evans : No. Senator XENOPHON: You do lease or there is no leasing going on? Mr Evans : No. We do not lease to any other entity. ...Does that mean the A330's aren't leased (or sub-leased) but just gifted to Jetstar? |
If $33M is 1/3 share you would have to assume they have $99M in the JHK accounts to start with.
I am tipping that they have spent a small fortune already trying to get the regulatory crap through. How much do we estimate these aircraft are costing each month per unit to lease? |
Roughly $20,000 USD per day per aircraft.
Jetstar ghost fleet draining Qantas coffers? | Plane Talking |
Ken Burrow...deeper
Just for the record, Senator Sean Edwards is NOT 'unrepresentative swill' as claimed for he was actually elected to the Senate by South Australian voters in General Election of 2010. Certain here may not have liked or appreciated it, but he did a wonderful job skewering a vocal but uninformed union official last night in Canberra. Said union official was sadly found to be wanting. On the other hand, Nathan Safe and his colleague shone a bright light on matters outside Qantas' control that have adversely affected it in recent years. I hope the Senators listened carefully to what they said as there were really on the money, unlike a certain other witness who appeared just before them. I am not sure where you are coming from. If it is medically induced, I commisurate. It is not Steve Purvinas that is ill-informed, sadly it is you that is ill-informed. As I have stated, Steve and I probably have differing views on a number of things but there is no doubting his sincerity and attention to detail. He may be a so-called "disgruntled former QF employee" but that does not, in any way, mean that he does not care about the organisation and its future, especially when half his members work for QF. As to "unrepresentative swill", it is a fair comment given the line of questioning taken by Sean Edwards, someone who was too lazy to have read the submission in full and asked questions that had already been asked and answered. None of Steve's presented facts are about race, colour or creed. They are simply facts. Indeed there are LAMES in Australia who are Asian. What the hell has the race card got to do with anything. The crux of the argument is how many holes are being put into the cheese and when they will all line up and result in a smoking hole and 300 body bags. The dumbing down of this industry can only go on so long before the actuaries say "enough is enough". We haven't reached that stage yet but we are getting close. As to the external factors affecting the Qantas performance, they pale into insignificance when compared to the internal gross negligence and ineptitude of management. Most of the big Asian carriers, including my own, have more flights in and out of Australia, servicing more cities, than does QF. How can that happen? We don't fly empty a/c for the fun of it. We service the market, often at higher fares than offered by QF. The only QF staff that follow AJ and his cohorts do so out of curiosity. |
How much do we estimate these aircraft are costing each month per unit to lease? And again. If Qantas is not the founder and funder of 'their' LCC in HKG - Jetstar, then who is paying what to Qantas for the licencing? Given, of course, they are but a minority shareholder/investor of their own brand. It's a tricky question. Qantas must be making a motsa out of (at least) the franchising or they wouldn't be investing in it - especially in a minority capacity with new aircraft parked all over the place, would they? What questions are QF asking of the real owners in their 'investments'? If they are clearly failing on so many levels, where is the accountability to QF shareholders? We know BGA is clearly an idiot, but is he that stupid to throw hundreds of millions into an investment using 'his' brand in HKG when it isn't even operating with jets parked all over the globe costing millions per month? And he/we are but 'minority' investors in this magnificent investment? Why BGA? Why? Show us the pay off..... I'm a QF shareholder, I want to know the answer... |
Qantas is clearly in deep deep trouble. Led by greedy idiots, who think they are the smartest people in the room. They are all getting cashed up, ready to walk away, leaving a burning heap behind them. And they won't care.
In 30 years time, one of my grandchildren, will read about this, as an example of the dark times in corporate Australia. It will tell of times when idiots where paid millions of dollars to rape a company and it's employees, make thousands of them unemployed, in fact make them all unemployed, as the Buisness was shut down, but the clowns that run the Business got payed millions for total ineptitude. Some one needs to be in jail for what is going on. |
I liked this bit, Senator Edwards buts in, wants to free Joyce and the board to continue on their rampage destroying the place, no idea.. :ugh:
Senator DASTYARI: But you have lost a share price of 50 per cent and you have lost 50 per cent of your market. You are telling me that it is a successful model when you have lost 50 per cent of market cap and 50 per cent of share price— Senator EDWARDS: That is why we want to free them; that is why we want to set them free, Sam. Senator DASTYARI: That is what you are saying makes a successful— CHAIR: Senator Dastyari, allow Mr Joyce to answer. Mr Joyce: I am saying that if you have a corner shop and a competitor down the road is willing to sell the same product and lose money associated with it, it does not matter how good your corner shop is if that competitor is willing to lose $250 million in the case of Tiger and $400 million in the case of Virgin. That is the dynamic that we are faced with. Mr Joyce: Senator, I have the support of our shareholders. If I do not have the support of my shareholders, the board and the shareholders— Mr Joyce: That is the important thing, Senator. The important thing is to have the support of the shareholders, and I continuously meet with our shareholders. We have met with the shareholders in the last few weeks, and they understand the dynamics. They spend more time on this than this committee would. Mr Joyce: They are the owners of this business. They decide who the management is and they decide who the board is. CHAIR: He is entitled to answer as he chooses. Senator Edwards has the call. |
You aren't going to "Set Qantas Free' you are going to "Set The Hedge Funds Free" to rape and pillage the AUstralian aviation consumer.
The true value of Domestic and International mainline is concealed. WIth the complicity of Virgin, any thinking marketer can rape the Australian domestic aviaton consumer quite easily. Anyone remember $700 tickets Melbourne - Sydney and return? The entire Jetstar business is a deliberate cash drain. Nobody in their right mind believes you can make money out of the Chinese. All these programs do is suck cash and hold the share price down. |
I initially thought Mr Andrew Finch (Qantas Counsel) was present to protect Joyce at the senate inquiry.
As a former legal consultant to the APA private equity bid. I think he was there to protect the plan to achieve foreign ownership. MC |
Sunfish.
Regarding the drain on Qantas financials. I recall the JQ CEO Bruce Buchanan discussing access to the shared Qantas Group Treasury. |
The important thing is to have the support of the shareholders, and I continuously meet with our shareholders. We have met with the shareholders in the last few weeks, and they understand the dynamics. They spend more time on this than this committee would. Does he only talk to large shareholders and not to small ones? Doesn't sound fair to me- is that even legal? |
Jetstar quits Auckland-Singapore route
10:08 AM Thursday Mar 20, 2014 http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webconte...E5_620x310.jpg A Jetstar plane arrives at Auckland International Airport. Jetstar will quit flying from Auckland to Singapore from July, saying the route is not performing as well as it had hoped. The budget airline is also facing the prospect of stiffer competition. Jetstar started flying daily Singapore-Auckland services in March 2011, but this was later reduced to three times a week. The airline is facing the prospect of greater competition on the route from the proposed Air New Zealand-Singapore Airlines alliance, which if approved will result in the New Zealand airline returning to flying its aircraft on the route and its partner moving towards using an Airbus A380 to Auckland. Jetstar is part of the troubled Qantas group but says it is expanding elsewhere between Australia and Asia. In the next few months starting long haul services between Melbourne and Tokyo Narita and between Brisbane and Bali. A spokesman said Jetstar had provided competition to the monopoly routes and had provided low fare choice on the Singapore-Auckland service. "Unfortunately the route has not performed as we would have liked and we have decided that the capacity could be put to better use on other routes," he said. All passengers booked on the Jetstar service beyond July 21 will be offered the option of a full refund, bringing their flights forward to travel before direct services end, or transferring to a connecting service via Australia. The airlines withdrawal is a blow to the travel industry. Auckland Airport in its recent submission on the proposed Air New Zealand-Singapore Airlines alliance had urged the government to carefully consider the impact on the competitive environment on the route. |
Latest rumour is that there is a behind the scenes push from shareholders to roll Joyce and put Peter Gregg in.
Then APA part 2 can commence. Balanced Equity, dixon and Co. (Who popped his head up to support the removal of the sales act, wonder why?) can then proceed to realise the asset value of the carrier and Qantas no longer exists. |
The 330 will join the Jetstar widebody fleet.
Jetstar AU lose 1 to Qantas, then get one back. Not all the 330's will go back to Qantas. Jetstar will use them on East-West flights. |
VR-HFX
[As to "unrepresentative swill", it is a fair comment given the line of questioning taken by Sean Edwards, someone who was too lazy to have read the submission in full and asked questions that had already been asked and answered.] I agree with you and refer back to my post: [The Senator got 8.76% of the vote (0.61 of a quota) - he was therefore dragged across into the Senate on Party lines.] This means that 91.24% of the voters of South Australia did NOT vote for him - pretty unrepresentative to me. |
There are obviously quite a few who do not understand how voting for the Senate takes place. I guess ignorance is bliss, and allows the uninformed to spruik their nonsense. :ugh::ugh::ugh:
Back to matters aviation. If a certain union official was really on top of his brief, and had all the facts at hand, why was he apparently ignorant of Virgin Australia having major maintenance performed in Singapore and Manila? Surely his members were aware and kept him up to date, especially as he has so much to say about Qantas' off-shore activities? |
Ken
I believe it was a senate enquiry into Qantas not virgin. I'm sure he would have brought more stuff if he knew he was going to be asked about everybody else And qantas. |
Ken Borough = Alan Joyce ???
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Aveng,
I realise the purpose of the enquirey but a certain union official kept banging on about VA having its maintenance checks limited to NZ and Portugal. If he makes a claim, it needs to be correct. He was found wanting - embarrassingly so. :ok: The Bullwinkle, No, I'm not AJ but I'd settle for just half of his annual salary etc. |
I just thought you might have been as you seem to have the same level of preoccupation with Virgin as he does.
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I wish my wife showed as much interest in one union official as Ken does.
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Ken,
PM Sunfish and let us know how you get on. |
The Bullwinkle,
I am not pre-occupied with Virgin. What I don't like to see is mis-perception, either intended or unintended. The ALAEA has been very critical of Qantas for having some of its heavy maintenance done off-shore. On the other hand, it's been quite uncritical of Virgin having all of its HM performed off-shore. In fact, it has understated the extent Virgin's off-shore maintenance. I'll give the Secretary the benefit of the doubt when he says he wasn't aware of some of it, but for someone in his position, that's a pretty lame (sorry, the pun was unintended) excuse. I like to see the facts correctly put. Aeromedic, WTF would I do that? Or, why would I want to? |
I really do not like Alan Joyce. He is kind of creepy.
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Ken,
I'm pretty sure Steve said that mainrenace was done in NZ (for Virgin that is) because that was where they could get it done quickly as they started their business. He also said they were bringing it back 'on shore' and starting an aprentice scheme. |
I like to see the facts correctly put. Actually, we know less about the future of Qantas now than we did 6 months ago. But my guess is if the 49% is abolished in the QSA then domestic will be sold off to foreign lands and international will be shut down and the assets sold off. Consider AJs continues rhetoric over the last few years in regard to international. Things like "international is in terminal decline" and " we will not invest in international until it provides positive returns on its capital". These all indicate that they just are happy to watch international wither away, and with the 49% removed even more interest will be lost as it will be about flogging off internationals aircraft, putting the cash in the domestic coffers and making domestic more attractive for potential purchasers. Yes, it would be good if AJ answered his questions directly. At least his workforce may then be able to move on and plan for a future instead of us all living each day with chopping sword hanging over our heads. The really honest answer we wanted from AJ when asked "what would it take for you to resign Mr Joyce?" the number 1 response should have been "at the present moment the board is seeking expressions of interest from suitable candidates to take my position, so as soon as the process is complete I will announce my resignation". Now that would have been a factual answer we would have all enjoyed and music to your "supportive" employees ears. |
Good post Stalin ,
Redundancy is no problem, the problem is whether the company goes tits up, and that's pretty sad.... |
Alan Joyce Economics Legislation Committee - 18/03/2014 - Qantas Sale Amendment Bill
Sorry that this has taken so long, but over the weekend I will post the full four hours, once I get it all processed, I think there are a lot of unanswered questions, more than ever before.. I really don't know where Qantas is headed.. under this leadership.. it's a bit scary..
Transcript here for your convenience, ParlInfo - Economics Legislation Committee : 18/03/2014 : Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014 and for those who missed it, a must watch more to come.... . |
Aeromedic, WTF would I do that? Or, why would I want to? |
AeroM
I have a well-developed sense of humour if I may say so but I'm not ***** stupid. :ok: |
View First Unread
Thread Tools Search this Thread 26th Mar 2012, 11:15 #1 (permalink) buggaluggs Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: asia Age: 41 Posts: 148 JetStar HK! This will ruffle a few feathers up on the 9th floor! Qantas, China Eastern to start Hong Kong budget airline - Totaltravel 26th Mar 2012, 13:44 #2 (permalink) bigbrother Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: a Galaxy far far away Posts: 124 hmmm I would think rolling around on the floor in fits of laughter would be more accurate. Qantas couldn't organise a chook raffle under current management. I would wait for the required approval from local govt. before I put too much of a spin on it, then wait to see where they can find some slots .... 2 years later, the only change is 9 planes parked in France (copied from fragrant harbour post # 2) |
TIMA9X,
Unbelievable that Joyce and co. cannot advise the senate of their plan to move forward if the QSA is repealed. Knowing what you are able to do after that is critical, yet all Joyce can offer is "It's a hypothetical" . The senators have to wring information from him form the continuous mantra of "All we want is level playing field...." in most answers. I'm just intrigued in the statements of having "spoken to the shareholders in the last few weeks" that he has their support. As far as any public airing of this information is concerned, I haven't seen any. Ken, Noted. |
The clue is in Alan being able to get away with not answering the question.
I can't help but feel that most of these senators don't want to upset the Qantas applecart and compromise their privileged access to Qantas's airport lounges in any way, that's how it is with most politicians unfortunately. Pity there may not even be a Qantas airport lounge for them in the future, but that argument remains invisible to the short term thinkers. I also find it rather disingenuous for the senate inquiry to simply take Alan's word on many things without presentation of evidence including the support he claims he has. The QSA is being presented to the senators as an archaic business safety instrument that is no longer relevant to modern corporate business practices and is indeed a hindrance to making a profit thus should be repealed. But what do senators know about running an airline? Embarrassingly, the same question can be said of Alan and his board. It's looking like it's going to be an ugly pillage of Qantas leaving the government to deal with the empty carcass of the former flagship carrier while Sol Trujello Mk2, oops I meant Alan Joyce takes his money and does a runner back to Ireland. |
I meant Alan Joyce takes his money and does a runner back to Ireland. |
This whole shitfight!
I am not a smart man, Jennyy!
Just, being the avio tragic that I am, observing FR24 noticing all the flights heading out of OZ to SE Asin destinations on Emirates metal. While I have no candour for Joyce's machinations, could it be percieved that we have let the cat out of the bag here? Why can a West Asian operation fly direct East Asia?(from aus?) This must be approved by international protocols to which we are a party. Have we been that short sighted? My question includes crew as well as management! I would suggest that our representation has been thrown a wildly swinging curveball, and the leprechaun never saw it coming! |
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