No, he'll just give it all to China Southern!!:ugh:

I don't think any of the legacy US airlines are interested in LCCs. All that have tried it have done their dough and given up. The US has hugely successful ULCCs like Spirit already and the value based sector is dominated by Southwest with Virgin and JetBlue also competing. It is hard to see what Jetstar could possibly bring to the US that they haven't already got in droves.

Nope, JQ will get the A380s to cater for the growth :cool:

In a 900 seat 'sardine-can' configuration. :ouch::}

...just quietly...
 

I sense another edition of maybe in order... plenty of fodder.

So let me ask a devils advocate question to you all.
And I'm not trolling you - I'm dead serious.
For a sec - forget Joyce and co.
If pilots, flighties, LAMES and the rest of the whole workforce were all put on JQ Ts and Cs tomorrow - what would happen to the airline's cost base and operations?

.....still won't return a profit if QF keep paying for JQ's fuel, ground handling etc

.....HK, JP, AU aircraft lease, set-up costs

The list goes on

And this list will become evident if the receivers are brought in that's for sure. Then there will be a lot of explaining to do

For the 4 millionth time, QF's current predicament has ZERO to do with the pay and conditions of the pilots, Engineers, CC etc!!!!

Comments like yours tartare show why management can feed such crap to the Press and get Johnny Public to believe it. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Almost a billon dollars down the jetstar ego driven black hole.

Mainline shrunk to non existence

Frequency/timing of remaining routes cut such as to almost guarantee failure

Lockout

Treating staff like dirt

No investment in fuel saving aircraft for longhaul

ABSOLUTELY ZERO TO DO WITH STAFF COSTS

Just like many in the press are blaming unions for the closure of GMH. Has zip to do with it, decision was made in the US of A e.g.
and
The union bashers love to bash the unions and the airline unions will be in the same firing line if QF falls.

We can't ever forget that what QANTAS love to do is support 'experts' like the WA guru who, supports QANTAS in return. Just like the ABC News business reporter who you can hear on 'Talking Business' on Ch 3 or 11 inflight. Like who provides the Inflight News Channel? That would be Ch 9 and you won't hear Ross Greenwood or 60 Minutes ever being critical of QANTAS.

It comes back to what ramius315 said.

Tool time.....
 

Allow me to be dead serious.....you sound like a complete tool, not a troll......

What sort of a lead in is that, even if you really wanted to know.....

I feel it is just a sign of the times, cannot watch the horse racing without seeing the Emirates Melbourne Cup, turn over and watch the golf, get the Emirates Australian Open, with so much money behind them it is only a matter of time before we have the Emirates Australian Airline, the Flying Kangaroo.

Man you Guys are rough.
Tartare asked a legitimate question. For all you know he was hoping that the answer would highlight the fact that terms and conditions of employees are not a major factor. Changing to Jetstar conditions would reduce the operating costs, the question was by how much? No matter what the answer it doesn't offset the lousy decisions made at top level, and no matter what the answer it doesn't't warrant typically Occa responses like We're our own worst enemy sometimes.

operating costs
 

had the jq cp in the jumpseat once, about 18 months ago

he said they ran the qf and jq pilots contracts in to the computer once to find the difference for the jq 330 schedule as it was then

the qf contract was about a 1/3rd dearer. not necessarily on salary, but mostly because of all the conditions.

for what its worth.

Tks Waren9

Framer, you get told something that is a complete lie by everyone from the CEO to idiot journo's who lecture about being 'competitive' with no understanding of the issues, over 15+ years and yes, you do take it very personally.

The problem is in the myriad of behind the scenes office staff and middle managers, that is QF's achilles heel when it comes to costs. I am not saying you dont need them at all but the number per airframe at QF is horrendous compared to nearly every other Airline Globally.. Operational staff per aircraft is relatively efficient globally. I have seen the numbers a while back but cant find a source atm.

Thank you Framer.
Acute instinct... shaking my head... have you been breathing in too much beryllium dust in the machine shop mate?
Warren - this is what I suspect.
I did a lot of modelling of pilots T's and C's at TE - and some big picture stuff - looking at common rating across different jets and what it might mean in future.
They are thinking really radical stuff - and poor old QF can't get past union squabbles.
Angle - I suspect you're right too.
And yes, I think there have been some lousy decisions made at the top.
One of the most gob-smackingly stupid ones was cancelling the 787 order.

Tartare, I was reading with interest to see the answer to your question.

Why QANTAS is in this predicament at all is a completely different question and there are plenty of opinions on here about that already. Personally I believe that Joyce took a 90 m head start in a 100m race and still appears to be losing by about 20m.

Asking about which would be cheaper is not a statement or suggestion that you have an opinion either way. It is a question with a factual answer. In my experience people only respond so aggressively (without addressing the question at hand) if the answer makes them uncomfortable.

I have also got a growing perception that what helps the company keep labour costs down is much less about the basic pay figure as it is about how much flexibility they retain to manage the roster as they see fit.

I understand that V-Jet, and I personally don't think that T's & C's are the problem at QF. My motivation when posting was to point out my dissatisfaction with the tone of a couple of the responses because I feel a certain association with the posters due to me being Australian and a pilot.Personally ( and I'm fine with others disagreeing) , I think that if you have been affronted you have three choices 1/ get violent 2/ get abusive and 3/ come up with an intelligent response to whatever has caused you offence. The first two are reactions, the third is a response.
This whole fan dangled inter web forum thing is just a bar room conversation to me and if Accute Instinct called Tartare a tool while we were all standing around having a beer when Tartare had asked a legit question I would pull him up on it, so I do the same here. That's all.
Have fun, Framer

Would cutting QF staff salaries down to JQ levels make a difference? Yes.

Would it save the Qantas Group? No.

I can't recall where i've read the data but the industry average for PILOT wages at legacy carriers is around 3% of airline operating costs (I'm sure someone will have the hard figures). The data I saw showed that Qantas was within 1% of this. One must remember that Qantas pilot salaries look high partly due to the Aussie dollar and Aussie income tax rates. As i understand it, Qantas pilot take-home pay when compared to other European, Asian and Middle Eastern carriers (not to mention contract work) is fairly comparable.

Obviously the company would save money by reducing these wages, but at least from a pilots standpoint, it'd make very little difference to overall operating costs, especially when compared to the cost of having a handful of Jetstar HK A320s sitting around in Toulouse not flying. Or the money wasted on RedQ. Or the money wasted starting up and running JQ Intl/Asia/Pacific/HK Or the cost of board/exec/manager bonuses and payouts for idiotic business decisions.

Qantas is still a GIANT beurocratic wheel... nobody wants to make a decision for fear of reprisal. It's like any other big former gov't organisation... people just want an easy sucure job to go to and do as little work as possible and keep their heads down.